1990113 Mumbai Press Conference and scientific discussion[孟买媒体见面会和科学讨论](机器翻译/未校)

Press Conference and scientific discussion, Mumbai (India), 13 January 1990.
媒体见面会和科学讨论，孟买（印度），1990年1月13日。

Rajesh Shah:
Rajesh Shah：

So we invited you to come this afternoon – I recognize it’s a Saturday afternoon but glad that you took the trouble to come over here today uh.. as Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi is here in Bombay and we thought it would be a good idea if there was an interaction with the Press.
所以我们邀请你今天下午来 - 我知道这是一个星期六的下午，但很高兴你今天麻烦来到这里呃......因为Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi来到孟买，我们认为如果那里有一个好主意是与媒体的互动。

All of us here, who have been followers of Shri Mataji, feel very strongly that uh.. the message of Shri Mataji, who was the founder of Sahaja Yoga, is a very important message not only for India but for the whole world as such and this is shown in practice. The persons you see over here, they are Scientists, Medical doctors, Psychiatric doctors, businessmen, lawyers, – diplomats – diplomats and who have achieved very considerably in their own lives. Now, the message of sahaja yoga has been going very far and deep in their own country. We have guests over here from the Soviet Union. and uh.. in the Soviet Union in very recent months, Shri Mataji has been there three times and Her meetings have been chaired by, attended by, very senior people in their government and thousands upon thousands of people. Over here, even as follow-up meetings after Shri Mataji has left the Soviet Union, uh.. some of our group members here, who have been there, even their, to their meetings thousands of people coming. So, it’s a very important message that is going through. It’s something which is very deep – we thought we would like to share it with you because we believe it’s very important for India as well – it’s important for our country. The times are such that uh.. sahaja yoga is very relevant and almost everybody here has something very special to relate. I don’t think there’s time for everybody but we do have a number of people who are uh.. sahaja yogis who are either scientists or others, who may talk to you for a few minutes and, come to, and, and give you their experiences.
我们这里的所有人都是Shri Mataji的追随者，他们非常强烈地感受到这一点......霎哈嘉瑜伽的创始人Shri Mataji的信息，不仅对印度而且对整个世界都是一个非常重要的信息。这在实践中显示出来。你在这里看到的人，他们是科学家，医生，精神科医生，商人，律师， - 外交官 - 外交官，他们在自己的生活中取得了很大的成就。现在，霎哈嘉瑜伽的信息在他们自己的国家已经走得很远了。我们这里有来自苏联的客人。最近几个月在苏联，Shri Mataji曾三次去过那里，她的会议由政府中的资深人士和成千上万的人主持。在这里，即使是在Shri Mataji离开苏联之后的后续会议，呃......我们的一些团体成员，他们在那里，甚至他们的会议，成千上万的人来到他们的会议。所以，这是一个非常重要的信息。这是非常深刻的事情 - 我们认为我们愿意与您分享，因为我们认为这对印度来说非常重要 - 这对我们国家来说非常重要。时间是这样的，呃霎哈嘉瑜伽是非常相关的，几乎每个人都有一些非常特殊的关联。我不认为每个人都有时间，但我们确实有很多人是呃...霎哈嘉瑜伽士，无论是科学家还是其他人，可能会和你谈几分钟，来，并且，给你他们的经历。

In the Press we read all kinds of things, we, it’s, we get news about so many things, that’s the reason it’s, it’s one of the main means by which people, we communicate in the mass and if there’s something good to communicate, if there’s something positive, something that has a relevance, something that will have, has a future in which things are going to change, something which has very many interesting facets to it I, I believe it would be interesting to you as well and that’s what uh.., why we requested you to come this afternoon. We have uh.. Shri Mataji’s own work for the last twenty years, where as the handout might be there, but as you uh.., uh.., if I may please introduce this very briefly that Shri Mataji comes from, as was born in the Salve family in 1923. Shri Mataji has fought in the Independence struggle, She’s been jailed as a student leader and thereafter uh..been married to Mr. C.P. Srivastava of the I.A.S. Mr. Srivastava’s career’s very well known here. He was uh… in the I.A.S., rose, he also became Chairman and Managing Director, Shipping Corporation. Just prior to that he was Special Secretary to Mr. Lal Bahadur Shastri when Mr. Shastri was Prime Minister, and in the last sixteen years he has been Secretary General of the United Nations Agency on Shipping and living in London – both he and Shri Mataji’s their main residence has been in London and each four years – this is an elected post, it’s not a post where you have uh.. India has any right on it. It could be anybody in the world could be elected to this post and each four years he’s been elected unanimously. He’s just completed sixteen years there and earned many trophies, many medals and recognition from more than thirty or forty countries. But in the last twenty years Shri Mataji has been coming out and talking about sahaja yoga and slowly the people have recognised around Her and today sahaja yoga has spread to more than thirty or forty countries.
在出版社，我们阅读各种各样的东西，我们，我们得到关于这么多东西的新闻，这就是它的原因，它是人们的主要手段之一，我们在群众中沟通，如果有好的沟通，如果有一些积极的东西，那些具有相关性的东西，一些将会有的东西，一个将来会发生变化的未来，这个东西有很多有趣的方面我，我相信它对你来说也很有趣，那就是呃..，为什么我们要求你今天下午来。我们有呃... Shri Mataji自己的工作在过去的二十年里，在那里可以提供讲义，但是就像你呃...，呃..如果我可以请你简单介绍一下Shri Mataji来自哪里，就像1923年出生于Salve家族.Shri Mataji参加了独立斗争，她被判入狱学生领导，之后呃...与CP先生结婚I.A.S的Srivastava斯里瓦斯塔瓦先生的职业生涯在这里非常有名。他是......在I.A.S.，玫瑰，他还成为航运公司的董事长兼董事总经理。就在此之前，当Shastri先生担任总理时，他是Lal Bahadur Shastri先生的特别秘书，在过去的十六年里，他一直担任联合国航运和秘书长的秘书长 - 他和Shri Mataji都是他们的主要住所一直在伦敦，每四年一次 - 这是一个选举产生的职位，这不是你的职位......印度对此有任何权利。可能是世界上任何人都可以当选这个职位，每四年他一致当选。他刚刚在那里完成了十六年，并从三十或四十个国家获得了许多奖杯，许多奖牌和认可。但是在过去的二十年里，Shri Mataji一直在出来讨论霎哈嘉瑜伽，慢慢地人们已经认识到了她，今天霎哈嘉瑜伽已经传播到三十或四十个国家。

Shri Mataji’s message is about the recognition of one’s own potential, one’s own energy inside and it actually happens – it’s not just the talk. It’s also totally related to what has been written in our shastras from beforehand that there is a Primordial energy, that there is it’s reflection within, within ourselves that’s called the Kundalini. The Kundalini is of the form of the mother within one and in the presence of Shri Mataji, or Her photograph, the Kundalini rises and you have the actual experience yourself. You feel a silence within one, it’s a complete sort of happiness, total awareness, you feel a cool breeze in your hands, the cool breeze on your heads and this is an actual experience of thousands and tens and tens of thousands of people not only in India but all over. It’s possible today, if you like and if you request Shri Mataji, maybe you could also have it but perhaps it might be good idea to invite some of our friends here to give a talk for a few minutes, if Shri Mataji if you permit.
Shri Mataji的信息是关于认识到自己的潜力，内在的自身能量，它实际上发生了 - 这不仅仅是谈话。它也与我们在我们的shastras中所写的完全相关，因为它有一种原始的能量，它内部的反射，被称为昆达利尼。 Kundalini是母亲的形象，在Shri Mataji的面前，或者她的照片，Kundalini升起，你自己有实际经验。你感觉到一个人的沉默，这是一种完整的幸福，完全的意识，你手上的凉风，凉爽的微风，这是一个成千上万的人的实际体验，不仅在印度，但到处都是。今天有可能，如果你愿意，如果你要求Shri Mataji，也许你也可以拥有它，但也许你可以邀请我们的朋友在这里发表讲话几分钟，如果你允许Shri Mataji。

Shri Mataji:
锡吕玛塔吉：

Now, I think, I will ask Dr. Rai because in, he went to – he actually uh.. was very successful in a Neurologist meeting there in Russia. Not only that but, I mean, he was amazed the way the Neurologist uh.. saw the point and understood the working of the Parasympathetic and all that so I would like him to say few words first of all. [HINDI – INKO WOH DE DO] Thank you. Now here, he was, he was head of that Physiology department Delhi University. [HINDI – PEHLE INHE BATA DIJIYE KI [UNCLEAR]] Haan,
现在，我想，我会问Rai博士，因为他去了 - 他实际上......他在俄罗斯的神经病学家会议上非常成功。不仅如此，而且，我的意思是，他对神经病学家的方式感到惊讶呃......看到了这一点并理解了Parasympathetic的工作以及所有这些，所以我希望他首先说几句话。 [HINDI  -  INKO WOH DE DO]谢谢。现在，他是德里大学生理学系主任。 [HINDI  -  PEHLE INHE BATA DIJIYE KI [UNCLEAR]] Haan，

Dr. Umesh C.Rai:
Umesh C.Rai博士：

Ladies and gentleman – you see, first I would like to introduce myself.
女士们，先生们 - 你们看，首先我想自我介绍一下。

I’ve been a Professor and Head of the Department of Physiology at Maulana Azad Medical College, then I was the Chief of the Physiology Department at JIPMER, Pondicherry and recently I was the Chief of the Department of Physiology and also Medical Supritendent of The Lady Hardinge Medical College and the Sucheta Kriplani Hospital. Now first I would like to tell you that how I came into sahaja yoga. Now, I listened to the talk of Shri Mataji in 1984 and, as Mr. Rajesh Shah has told you, that in the presence of Mother the Kundalini of a person awakens and he gets the experience of a cool breeze. Now all the persons present in the hall got the experience of the cool breeze but, unfortunately, I had a little doubt in my mind as many persons initially have, so I very humbly requested Shri Mataji that, “Mother, I would like to do some research work because I would like to find out whether actually one gets the feeling of the cool breeze or it is simply a subjective feeling or You told me earlier also it might be due to hypnosis or other thing.” So I took the permission of Shri Mataji into my University faculty meeting and I told them that, “I want to work on sahaja yoga and to establish whether one gets the cool breeze or not.” There was a little opposition in the faculty meeting because they wanted to work more on fundamental aspects but ultimately seeing that yoga is very important and one must know what happens, you see, when yoga is done in the body, the University agreed on it and got it recognised as a subject for research. Now, two of my students, you see, – I took one student, who did a Doctorate on sahaja yoga philosophy and he tried to find out that what are the physiological effects of the Kundalini awakening by sahaja yoga? That was the first thesis done. It was presented, scrutinised by the examiners foreign as well as outsiders and uh.. Dr. Sethi, who was the my student, got the degree of Doctorate uh.. in Physiology Medicine on this subject. Another student Dr. Chugh is here, uh.. he was the next my student, postgraduate student and he has also been given the degree of Doctor of Medicine on sahaja yoga.
我是Maulana Azad医学院的教授和生理学系主任，然后我是JIPMER，Pondicherry的生理学系主任，最近我还是The Lady的生理学系主任和医学高级主任。哈丁医学院和Sucheta Kriplani医院。首先我想告诉你我是如何进入霎哈嘉瑜伽的。现在，我听了1984年Shri Mataji的谈话，正如Rajesh Shah先生告诉你的那样，在母亲面前，一个人的昆达里尼醒来，他获得了凉风的体验。现在大厅里的所有人都有凉风的经历，但不幸的是，我心里有一点怀疑，因为很多人最初都有，所以我非常谦卑地要求Shri Mataji，“母亲，我想做一些研究工作，因为我想知道是否真的有人感受到凉风或者只是一种主观感觉，或者你之前告诉过我也可能是因为催眠或其他事情。“所以我接受了Shri Mataji进入我的大学教师会议，我告诉他们，“我想研究霎哈嘉瑜伽，并确定是否能得到凉爽的微风。”教师会议中有一点反对意见，因为他们想要更多地工作基本方面，但最终看到瑜伽是非常重要的，必须知道发生了什么，你看，当瑜伽在体内完成时，大学同意并将其作为研究对象。现在，我看到我的两个学生 - 我带了一个学生，他在霎哈嘉瑜伽哲学上做过博士学位，他试图找出昆哈利尼被霎哈嘉瑜伽唤醒的生理影响是什么？这是第一篇论文。它由外国和外国的审查员审查，呃。我的学生Sethi博士在这个问题上获得了生理医学博士学位。另一名学生Chugh博士来到这里，呃..他是我的下一个学生，研究生，他还获得了霎哈嘉瑜伽医学博士学位。

His work was on the role of sahaja yoga in the treatment of psychosomatic diseases. So these were the two theses and they were very highly credited by the examiners and in Lady Hardinge Medical College we also started giving sahaja yoga to the patients, you see, for the treatment of psychosomatic diseases. Because of the first discovery, you see, of the physiological effects, we found that one is doing a sahaja yoga, you see, there is a change, a profound changes in the body which occur and which are very important, you see, uh.. for their utility for the human beings. Because in modern age, you see, we find what happens is that we are going into stress and strain of life. If you read, you see, the medical literature you find people say that it is the psychological stress which is responsible for increasing incidence of hypertension in most of the Western countries, developing countries as well as the developed countries. And we found by our first thesis, you see, which work was done, that this could be a very important, if a person practices sahaja yoga, the stress factor can be managed very nicely because all the parameters, you see, for testing whether person is in state of stress, tension or anxiety are his in a relaxed state were, are done, and we found that a person who did sahaja yoga only for twenty minutes a day, you see, in about three to four months time there were changes in blood, there were changes in the heart, there were changes in the electroencephalograph, there were changes in the muscle activity uh.. and the changes in the neurotransmitter. One of the very important neurotransmitter Adrenaline, you see, which is produced by the stimulation of the Sympathetic Nervous system when you are anxious, you see, you are in tension, what happens is there is greater pouring of Adrenaline in the body and as a result of which your heartbeat increases, you see, and you find uh..there is a muscle, you see, blood Lactic acid increases and persons if they are having accumulated stress for years together, you develop various type of Cardio-Vascular disorders, like essential Hypertension is one, Ischemic heart disease is another and even Arrhythmia. So, we try to find out that how uh..we try to do it on the patients and that is how the work of Dr. Chugh started, you see, and we did the work on patients and we took two groups, you see, we took the patients of Hypertension as well as Bronchial Asthma. Bronchial Asthma also has got a psychological factor in it, stress factor. We took these two groups and, to our surprise, we found it gave a dramatic affect.
他的工作是霎哈嘉瑜伽在治疗心身疾病中的作用。所以这些是两篇论文，他们得到了考官的高度评价，在哈丁医学院，我们也开始为患者提供霎哈嘉瑜伽，用于治疗心身疾病。因为第一次发现，你看，生理效应，我们发现一个人正在做霎哈嘉瑜伽，你看，有一个变化，身体发生了深刻的变化，这是非常重要的，你看，呃..因为它们对人类的实用性。因为在现代，你看，我们发现发生的事情是我们正在进入压力和生活的压力。如果你看过，你会发现医学文献，你会发现，在大多数西方国家，发展中国家以及发达国家，人们都认为这是导致高血压发病率上升的心理压力。我们通过我们的第一篇论文找到了哪些工作已经完成，这可能是非常重要的，如果一个人练习霎哈嘉瑜伽，压力因素可以很好地管理，因为所有参数，你看，用于测试是否人处于压力状态，紧张状态或焦虑状态是他处于放松状态时，已经完成了，我们发现一个人每天只做二十分钟的霎哈嘉瑜伽，你看，在大约三到四个月的时间里血液的变化，心脏有变化，脑电图有变化，肌肉活动发生变化呃......和神经递质的变化。你看，其中一种非常重要的神经递质肾上腺素，当你焦虑的时候是由交感神经系统的刺激产生的，你看，你处于紧张状态，发生的是肾上腺素在体内有更多的倾泻，结果你的心跳增加，你看，你发现呃......肌肉，你看，血液乳酸增加，如果他们多年累积压力，你会发展各种类型的心血管疾病，像原发性高血压一样，缺血性心脏病是另一种甚至是心律失常。所以，我们试着找出你是怎么做的。我们试着对患者这样做，这就是Chugh博士的工作开始，你看，我们做了病人的工作，我们分两组，你看，我们服用了高血压和支气管哮喘患者。支气管哮喘也有一个心理因素，压力因素。我们采取了这两个小组，令我们惊讶的是，我们发现它产生了戏剧性的影响。

98%, if I am correct, you see, the patients of hypertension improved and then they were without drugs on follow-up and they had no [UNCLEAR]. The other group, which was simply on drugs, was not cured, you see, and they were getting, you see, their blood pressure very high uh.. and so we concluded that if a person is doing sahaja yoga  regularly then you find the essential hypertension can be treated and the persons who are prone to essential hypertension, you see, they can be prevented and similarly in Bronchial Asthma, you see, we found that was very, very helpful. Now after this, you see, we uh.. recently went to Russia, you see, and in Russia, you see, we, I attended a conference in Yalta and the conference was very good because the, the role was there the uh.. it was on the yoga and self regulation and this was organized by the people of non-traditional medicine. In Russia also people want that, they are fed up with the drugs, and they want that there should be a system of medicine, you see, which may be non-traditional and they found that yoga is very good. So many types of yogic were there – you see,T.M. people were there, Rajnishites were there, you see, the Brahma kumaris were there, magneto therapy were there, so many were there. But in the end of the conference, you see, they found they were convinced that sahaja yoga is one of the best and it is a scientific work has been done, it has been proved statistically that, you see, the person who is doing sahaja yoga, is able to regulate his brain activity. You see, as Mother has told, you see, when one is doing sahaja yoga, you are in balance. The activity of the Sympathetic and Parasympathetic it is modulated and you are in a balance and that is how when a person is doing sahaja yoga your diseases are automatically cured. More so, they are prevented. If a normal person is doing you can prevent the occurence of disease. So, in Yalta conference was very nice. Then in Moscow we had another conference and there too it was a conference on yoga and sports and I told them, if a person – you see, there what happens there in sports also they are in great tension because finding out that they should be able to keep the time, you see, and they should win in it and all those things so I told them, if a person is doing sahaja yoga, you see, they will be able to manage the stress factor which is there. And again, you see, it also because it acts at the level of the limbic system, you see, it might help in the efficiency as well. Then I, I gave a talk in the Institute of Neurology at Leningrad, you see, it is one of the very famous institute there – they do a lot of operations and they requested me to give a talk because they said  they are also very much affected by uh.. the hypertension because what happened tension is there, many people develop hypertension so they said  we want to do it and they took the realization and 90% people, doctors who were there, they got the realization. Now, another thing we are doing in Delhi nowadays, is the affect of sahaja yoga on Epilepsy. So they got very much interested to do work on Epilepsy because the granuloma epilepsy can have no treatment and the drugs which are given they are to be given for the whole life. So they said it would be very good idea if Dr. Rai you could get this thing done here and, and we are thinking, they have signed rather a project also where we will go and give them the initiation, sahaja yoga, the patients and they will try also to find out that what is the result. In Delhi we are doing it in collaboration with the Defence Institute of Physiology and Allied Sciences – the results are very good. We are finding that the attacks of epilepsy, you see, are decreasing when a person is doing sahaja yoga.
98％，如果我是正确的，你看，高血压患者有所改善，然后他们没有药物进行随访，他们没有[UNCLEAR]。另一组，只是吸毒，没有治愈，你看，他们正在得到，你看，他们的血压非常高......所以我们得出结论，如果一个人经常做霎哈嘉瑜伽，那么你会发现可以治疗原发性高血压和易患原发性高血压的人，你知道，他们可以预防，类似于支气管哮喘，你知道，我们发现这是非常非常有帮助的。在此之后，你看，我们呃..最近去了俄罗斯，你看，在俄罗斯，你看，我们，我参加了雅尔塔的一次会议，会议非常好，因为那个角色就在那里呃。它是关于瑜伽和自我调节的，这是由非传统医学的人组织的。在俄罗斯也有人想要，他们厌倦了药物，他们希望应该有一个医学系统，你看，这可能是非传统的，他们发现瑜伽非常好。那里有很多类型的瑜伽 - 你看，T.M。人们在那里，Rajnishites在那里，你看，Brahma kumaris在那里，磁疗在那里，很多人在那里。但是在会议结束时，你看，他们发现他们确信霎哈嘉瑜伽是最好的之一，这是一项科学工作已经完成，从统计数据证明，你看，正在做霎哈嘉的人瑜伽，能够调节他的大脑活动。你看，正如母亲所说，你看，当你正在做霎哈嘉瑜伽时，你处于平衡状态。 Sympathetic和Parasympathetic的活动被调节，你处于平衡状态，这就是当一个人做霎哈嘉瑜伽时，你的疾病会自动治愈。更重要的是，它们被阻止了。如果正常人在做，你可以预防疾病的发生。所以，在雅尔塔会议上非常好。然后在莫斯科，我们举行了另一次会议，那里也是瑜伽和体育的会议，我告诉他们，如果一个人 - 你看，那里的体育运动也发生了很大的紧张，因为发现他们应该能够为了保持时间，你看，他们应该赢得它和所有那些东西，所以我告诉他们，如果一个人正在做霎哈嘉瑜伽，你看，他们将能够管理那里的压力因素。再一次，你看，它也是因为它在边缘系统的层面起作用，你看，它也可能有助于提高效率。然后我，我在列宁格勒的神经病学研究所做了一个演讲，你看，它是那里非常着名的研究所之一 - 他们做了很多手术，他们要求我发表演讲，因为他们说他们也非常受到高血压的影响因为紧张局势已经发生，许多人发展为高血压因此他们说我们想要这样做并且他们认识到这一点，90％的人，那里的医生，他们得到了认识。现在，我们现在在德里做的另一件事是霎哈嘉瑜伽对癫痫的影响。因此他们对癫痫的工作非常感兴趣，因为肉芽肿癫痫可以没有治疗，并且给予他们一生的药物。所以他们说如果你能让Rai博士在这里完成这件事，并且我们正在考虑，他们已经签署了一个项目，我们将去哪里，给他们启动，霎哈嘉瑜伽，患者和他们，这将是一个非常好的主意。他们还会尝试找出结果是什么。在德里，我们正在与国防生理学和相关科学研究所合作 - 结果非常好。我们发现，当一个人做霎哈嘉瑜伽时，癫痫的发作正在减少。

So and then you see, we had also did some public lectures and as Rajesh Shah told you just now you see, about 1500 to 2000 people were attending the lectures and there were requests from many places that many centers may be opened. We have already got a center at Leningrad, Moscow, Kiev and Sochi. They are the four places where the centers are there but they wanted center at Tashkent, Yalta, [UNCLEAR – NOGINSK?] and Siberia and so on. So there was a very good response and the people think there that this could be one of the non-traditional system of medicine uh.. in Russia. They are very much. You see, the Ministry of Education, we had a meeting with them and uh.. there, I think, the Deputy Minister was very much interested and he said, “Dr. Rai can it help it in the development of the children, can it help at the rehabilitation centers?” I said, “Certainly.” Because, you see, as a physiologist I know that if the actualization of the Kundalini takes place at the level of the limbic system, which affects the behaviour of a person, naturally it is going to be a very successful because the behaviour of these children, you see, in the orphanages, you see, is a little different. So, if they do it and practise, it comes down to a little normal level.
所以，你看，我们也做了一些公开讲座，正如Rajesh Shah刚刚告诉你的那样，大约有1500到2000人参加了讲座，许多地方都有人要求开设许多中心。我们已经在列宁格勒，莫斯科，基辅和索契建立了一个中心。他们是中心所在的四个地方，但他们想要在塔什干，雅尔塔，[UNCLEAR  -  NOGINSK？]和西伯利亚等中心。所以有一个非常好的反应，人们认为这可能是俄罗斯非传统的医学系统之一。他们非常。你看，教育部，我们和他们开过会，呃......我想，副部长非常感兴趣，他说，“博士Rai可以帮助它在儿童的发展中，它可以帮助康复中心吗？“我说，”当然。“因为，你知道，作为一名生理学家，我知道，如果昆达里尼的实现发生在这个水平上影响一个人行为的边缘系统本身就会非常成功，因为你看，这些孩子在孤儿院里的行为有点不同。所以，如果他们这样做并且练习，那就归结为一个正常的水平。

So they are thinking of doing a research on this as well. Similarly, in other other schools also they wanted because it can also uh.. increase the creativity in children because of the connections of the limbic systems with the frontal lobe. You find the children who are doing sahaja yoga, they excel in their performance. This is our own experience, Mother. At Delhi we have seen, some of the children who were very poor and who were coming to the centers and doing this, they stood first in their classes – now remarkable! This is all because of the creative power, you see, when the children are doing it, you see, their Kundalini gets awakened, you see, your frontal lobe is also stimulated which they receive it for the higher intellectual activity. So we find that this is sahaja yoga, you see. Mother has discovered it, She is the founder of the science of sahaja yoga and I think, it is a unique yoga and the best yoga which the human mankind can have today. The drug problem, you see, which is there, can also be solved by this. You see the people are taking drug – why they take drug?
所以他们也在考虑对此进行研究。同样，在其他学校也是他们想要的，因为它也可以因为边缘系统与额叶的连接而增加儿童的创造力。你会发现那些正在做霎哈嘉瑜伽的孩子，他们的表现非常出色。这是我们自己的经历，妈妈。在德里我们看到，有些孩子非常贫穷，他们来到这些中心并且这样做，他们在班上排名第一 - 现在非常了不起！这一切都是因为创造力，你看，当孩子们这样做时，你看，他们的昆达利尼被唤醒了，你看，你的额叶也受到刺激，他们接受了它以获得更高的智力活动。所以我们发现这是霎哈嘉瑜伽，你看。妈妈已经发现了它，她是霎哈嘉瑜伽科学的创始人，我认为，它是一种独特的瑜伽，是人类今天可以拥有的最好的瑜伽。你知道，在那里，毒品问题也可以解决。你看到人们正在服用药物 - 为什么他们服用药物？

It is because of the tension, because of certain problems, emotional problem, other problems are there. So, if one starts doing it, all these things will improve. I know persons, you see, by my experience, you see that they have left smoking, they have left uh.. alcohol – persons who have been taking alcohol all their life, now they don’t touch it. They say, “If I can’t touch it,” even if you offer them. So it’s just, things can happen I think it is a wonderful thing and best for the mankind. Similarly, you see, so much as I told you earlier the Ischemic heart disease, the heart attacks – now the doctors all over the world know that it is the psychological stress which is responsible for increasing even the blood cholesterol level. Recently, you see, in the last two years people have found it out and that is the cause of the atherosclerosis. Another thing what they have found recently is that this psychological stress, emotional stress can cause spiro micro-coronary vessels and thereby can give rise to heart attack and sudden death, Mother. Now all these things can be prevented, you see, if a person is doing sahaja yoga everyday for say, about ten to fifteen minutes. So it is very nice, it is a life, I say sahaja yoga if you have a sahaja yoga lifestyle, I think you can prevent the heart diseases. So Mother, this is what I think they are. If any questions are there, more welcome to ask.
正是因为紧张，因为某些问题，情绪问题，还有其他问题。所以，如果一个人开始这样做，所有这些都会改善。我知道有些人，你知道，根据我的经验，你看到他们已经抽烟了，他们已经离开了呃......酒精 - 一直在喝酒的人，现在他们不接触它。他们说，“如果我不能触摸它，”即使你提供它们。所以只是，事情可能发生我认为这对人类来说是一件美妙的事情。同样地，你可以看到，就像我之前告诉你的那样，缺血性心脏病，心脏病发作 - 现在全世界的医生都知道，心理压力是导致血液胆固醇水平升高的原因。最近，你看，在过去的两年里，人们已经发现它，这是动脉粥样硬化的原因。他们最近发现的另一件事是，这种心理压力，情绪压力会导致螺旋状微冠状血管，从而导致心脏病发作和猝死，母亲。现在所有这些事情都可以预防，你知道，如果一个人每天都在做霎哈嘉瑜伽，比如大约十到十五分钟。所以这是非常好的，这是一种生活，我说霎哈嘉瑜伽，如果你有一个霎哈嘉瑜伽生活方式，我认为你可以预防心脏病。妈妈，这就是我认为的。如果有任何问题，欢迎提出质疑。

Shri Mataji:
锡吕玛塔吉：

Now, I would request Dr. Wells, who is in charge of seven hospitals in London, has, is luckily with us and he will tell you how he has cured patients with sahaja yoga, who suffered.
现在，我要请负责伦敦七家医院的威尔斯博士，幸运地和我们在一起，他会告诉你他是如何治愈患有霎哈嘉瑜伽的患者的。

Brian Wells:
布赖恩威尔斯​​：

Shri Mataji – good afternoon ladies and gentleman, my name is Brian Wells. I’m a consultant psychiatrist in the Riverside Health Authority of London and I sub-specialize in the field of substance misuse which is problems with drugs and alcohol. I’m going to be very brief. My own experience in sahaja yoga began in 1982 and I was very skeptical, I was a very cautious Westerner who was very wary of things that were Indian and I have to say that since 1982 my own life is changed dramatically as a result of the albeit originally very gradual practice of sahaja yoga and my own health, my own career, my own well-being has improved enormously. Professionally, I work particularly with heroin addicts. I have to say that I have never seen heroin addicts improve, give up drugs and experience a well-being and a joyfulness like the people who we have in sahaja yoga, who come into sahaja yoga and they give up their drugs and experience a whole different way of living, a whole different attitude which is based on these very fundamental principles as taught by Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji  - 女士们，先生们，下午好，我叫Brian Wells。我是伦敦河滨卫生局的精神病学顾问，我专门研究物质滥用领域，即毒品和酒精问题。我会非常简短。我自己在霎哈嘉瑜伽方面的经历开始于1982年，我非常怀疑，我是一个非常谨慎的西方人，对印度人的事物非常警惕，我不得不说，自1982年以来，我自己的生活因此而发生了巨大的变化。原本非常渐进的霎哈嘉瑜伽练习和我自己的健康，我自己的事业，我自己的幸福得到了极大的改善。在专业方面，我特别注意海洛因上瘾者。我不得不说，我从未见过海洛因成瘾者改善，放弃毒品，体验幸福和快乐，就像我们在霎哈嘉瑜伽中的人一样，他们进入霎哈嘉瑜伽，他们放弃毒品，体验整体不同的生活方式，完全不同的态度，这是基于Shri Mataji所教导的这些基本原则。

It’s not a form of treatment that is widely used in the West but it’s beginning to spread. Similarly a number of people in sahaja yoga had very serious alcohol problems when they arrived. These people are now completely alcohol free, living very balanced, very normal and very spiritual lives. My own addiction to nicotine was terminated gradually as I came into sahaja yoga and I found that gradually it became unnecessary to smoke cigarettes and it became important to be healthy, to be the right weight, to be a balanced person, to be married, with children leading a normal, healthy life. My own interest in human well-being have moved beyond addiction and I’ve been very fortunate in being able to travel to Finland and to the United States this year largely to present the work of Dr. Deepa Chugh that has already been referred to by the professor. In Finland we presented his work at a Physiology conference which was full of very skeptical Western Scientists who were interested in atoms, molecules, enzymes and I stood up on stage and the audience thought I was a little bit crazy talking about sahaja yoga and it’s affects on hypertension but as I talked it became clear that actually the results of sahaja yoga are very spectacular indeed. The people who practice sahaja yoga, after sixteen weeks were on no medication at all and their blood pressure had come down from a very high and dangerous level to a very acceptable level and the people in the audience had to notice this and came up afterwards and were impressed and as a result of their suggestions, Dr. Chugh is now publishing his work in the international medical press. A few weeks ago, I was in Boston and I presented this work again at a huge conference of American Chest and Cardio-thoracic medicine and again we stimulated a great deal of interest because as Professor mentioned a lot of people are now interested in ways of treating blood pressure, treating chest diseases with methods that do not involve the use of medication and sahaja yoga is something that’s considered unusual by many Western trained doctors but the results that Dr. Chugh has achieved are indeed very spectacular and we have now a number of very eminent researchers in United States and in Europe who are interested in comparing the effects of sahaja yoga against drug treatment and against other forms of realization therapy. So from my own standpoint, sahaja yoga is the best treatment I know for addiction of all kinds whether it is addiction to drugs, to alcohol, tobacco, to food or to other forms of behaviour. It’s a system of becoming balanced, – becoming healthy and becoming whole. Thank you for your attention – Thank You Shri Mataji! –
它不是西方广泛使用的一种治疗形式，但它已经开始传播。同样地，一些霎哈嘉瑜伽的人在到达时有非常严重的酒精问题。这些人现在完全没有酒精，生活非常平衡，非常正常，非常精神生活。当我进入霎哈嘉瑜伽时，我自己对尼古丁的依赖逐渐被终止，我发现逐渐没有必要抽烟，健康，成为正确的体重，成为一个平衡的人，结婚，与孩子们过着正常，健康的生活。我对人类福祉的兴趣超越了成瘾，我很幸运能够今年前往芬兰和美国，主要是为了介绍Deepa Chugh博士已经提到的作品。教授。在芬兰，我们在生理学会议上展示了他的作品，这个会议充满了对原子，分子，酶感兴趣的非常持怀疑态度的西方科学家，我站在舞台上，观众认为我谈论霎哈嘉瑜伽有点疯狂关于高血压，但正如我所说，很明显，实际上霎哈嘉瑜伽的结果非常壮观。十六周后练习霎哈嘉瑜伽的人根本没有服药，他们的血压从一个非常高的危险水平下降到一个非常可接受的水平，观众中的人们不得不注意到这一点并且事后出现了由于他们的建议，Chugh博士现在正在国际医学媒体上发表他的作品。几个星期前，我在波士顿，我在美国胸部和心胸科医学会议上再次展示了这项工作，我们再次引起了极大的兴趣，因为正如教授提到的那样，很多人现在都对治疗血压，治疗胸部疾病的方法不涉及使用药物和霎哈嘉瑜伽是许多西方训练有素的医生认为不寻常的事情，但Chugh博士所取得的成果确实非常壮观，我们现在有一些在美国和欧洲非常杰出的研究人员，他们有兴趣比较霎哈嘉瑜伽对药物治疗和其他形式的实现治疗的影响。因此，从我自己的观点来看，霎哈嘉瑜伽是我所知道的最好的治疗方法，无论是对毒品，酒精，烟草，食物还是其他形式的行为都是上瘾。这是一个变得平衡的系统 - 变得健康并变得完整。感谢您的关注 - 谢谢Shri Mataji！ -

Shri Mataji:
锡吕玛塔吉：

Thank you. Now, what should we have now? Uh.. we have so many doctors here, you see – Dr. Talwar is here – aayeaga. He is from Delhi, then we have Dr. Chugh uh… we have other doctors of scientist here and we have here on this side Dr. Nigam and Dr. Baghdan who’s a Russian and Dr. Spiro from England. So please come – sab log khade ho jaayein to theek hai – it’s better you all stand up here, just let us see. – Aap ek, thode mein keh dijiyega. – All the doctors – All the doctors should stand up together. We have minimised their number just to make you understand that is, this is Dr. Pepe from Spain, then we have Sarah Setchell from England – come along.
谢谢。现在，我们现在应该拥有什么？呃..我们这里有这么多医生，你看 -  Talwar博士在这里 -  aayeaga。他来自德里，然后我们有Chugh博士......我们这里有其他科学家医生，我们这边有Nigam博士和Baghdan博士，他是俄罗斯人，来自英国的Spiro博士。所以请来吧 - 记录khade ho jaayein到theek hai  - 你们站在这里更好，让我们看看。 -  Aap ek，thode mein keh dijiyega。 - 所有的医生 - 所有的医生应该站在一起。我们已经减少了他们的数量，只是为了让你明白，这是来自西班牙的Pepe博士，然后我们有来自英国的Sarah Setchell  - 来吧。

There are seven doctors in England who are doing this research there in England and also there is a research going on in the Cambridge University but, by doctor, Derek Lee – he’s also here. Luckily they are here so that’s why I wanted to have the meeting today.
英格兰有七位医生在英国进行这项研究，剑桥大学正在进行一项研究，但是由医生Derek Lee  - 他也在这里。幸运的是他们在这里，所以我想今天开会。

Dr.Talwar:
Dr.Talwar：

Shri Mataji, we have so many illuminatory sort of individuals here but we are all at Your feet in collectivity. I just like to say a couple of things – of course we have all experiences to share otherwise we would not have been in sahaja yoga If you want to see an example of essential hypertension patient in a medical person, I’m an example standing in front of you. [SHRI MATAJI LAUGHS] It’s five years ago since I gave up drugs and blood pressure is quite normal. I can tell you that because no doctor spares me to take my blood pressure from time to time because they’re completely enamored with the factor as how could it occur – there’s no answer for it. Sometimes, Shri Mataji, when we hear people talking about blind faith, I wonder, how people can talk about blind faith when they are blind themselves. To be able to understand subtlety of life one has to have the actual experience. Unless we get the actual experience of Self-realization on our own Central Nervous System, I don’t think anybody has a right to ask for any proofs because no proof can be given on equipments which are not properly functioning. Now, for that purpose, with due apology, Shri Mataji, I would like to point out because it seems to be sensationalization when individuals want individual proofs from people who have gone through the experience.
Shri Mataji，我们这里有很多有启发性的人，但我们都在集体中。我只想说几件事 - 当然我们有分享的经验，否则我们就不会参加霎哈嘉瑜伽如果你想看一个医疗人员的原发性高血压患者的例子，我就是一个例子。你的面前。 [SHRI MATAJI LAUGHS]这是五年前我放弃药物和血压是很正常的。我可以告诉你，因为没有医生不时地让我接受我的血压，因为他们完全迷恋这个因素，因为它怎么可能发生 - 没有答案。有时，Shri Mataji，当我们听到人们谈论盲目信仰时，我想知道，当他们自己失明时，人们如何谈论盲目信仰。为了能够理解生活的微妙之处，必须要有实际经验。除非我们在自己的中枢神经系统上获得自我实现的实际经验，否则我认为没有人有权要求任何证据，因为没有证据证明没有正常运行的设备。现在，为了这个目的，我应该指出Shri Mataji应该道歉，因为当个人想要经历过这些经历的人的个人证明时，这似乎是耸人听闻的。

I’d like them to come forth and take the experience of Self-realization, feel the whole process on their own Central Nervous System and then, I think, they would have a right to ask for proofs, if any, is required by them. My whole family, I may tell you, we were a, shall we say, a zoo of some sort of problems. My wife was with crippling arthritis and my son suffered from severe migraine and my daughter-in-law had problems with bronchial asthma and by the Grace of Shri Mataji by the introduction of these sahaja techniques, practices, in our daily life, we have all got rid of our problems. As a clinical practitioner in Medicine, as a medical specialist, I can say one thing, there are lots of things which cannot be proved in a laboratory but which is a better proof – the person who’s ailment disappears or the, or the records of a laboratory – I leave it up to you gentleman. There are so many doctors who follow, I wouldn’t like to say anything more but this is just to let you have a feel that there’s much more to life than what is visible in the three dimensions that we are aware. Thank you – thank You Shri Mataji!
我希望他们出现并体验自我实现的经验，感受整个过程在他们自己的中枢神经系统，然后，我认为，他们有权要求他们提供证据，如果有的话。我的全家人，我可能会告诉你，我们是一个有问题的动物园。我的妻子患有严重的关节炎，我的儿子患有严重的偏头痛，我的儿媳患有支气管哮喘，并且通过引入这些霎哈嘉技术，实践，我们的所有人都有Shri Mataji的Grace摆脱了我们的问题。作为一名医学临床从业者，作为一名医学专家，我可以说一件事，有很多事情在实验室无法证明，但这是一个更好的证据 - 病人消失或者记录了实验室 - 我留给你这位先生。有很多医生关注，我不想多说什么，但这只是为了让你感觉到生命中的东西远远超过我们所知道的三维中可见的东西。谢谢 - 谢谢Shri Mataji！

Shri Mataji:
锡吕玛塔吉：

You could say about the Parasympathetic Nervous system also – [UNCLEAR – YOU WANT TO SAY ABOUT WHAT YOU SAID?] because, you see, it’s sounding like magic to them but if you tell them what works it out – isn’t it? [UNCLEAR] – [UNCLEAR -TELL THEM?]] – About the Parasympathetic?
你也可以说Parasympathetic神经系统 -  [UNCLEAR  - 你想说什么你说的？]因为，你知道，这对他们来说听起来像是魔术，但如果你告诉他们什么有效 - 不是吗？ [UNCLEAR]  -  [UNCLEAR -TELL他们？]]  - 关于Parasympathetic？

[UNCLEAR] – Yes, you see how the Kundalini works and how it supplies this thing. Of course, you’ll get the little paper to see what is actually, how it works out. You see, also uh.. you should know because it may sound like a magic to you – it’s not magic, it’s no magic at all. This power is within us which rises, actually rises – in some people you can even see the pulsation of the triangular bone and you actually see it, rising in it – in some people, not all of us, some people. Where there’s obstruction you can see it clearly but some people just it shoots off and then you can yourself feel the cool breeze on your head, you can feel the cool breeze on your hands but everybody doesn’t get it. there could be some people who don’t get it. There are some people who didn’t get it for, I think, say about two months, three months – but they got it ultimately – but you have to keep your mind open as any scientist has to. Just to deny something, to say there is no God, is unscientific. You have not found it out where there is God or not so keep it as a hypothesis and see for yourself if it is not there, if you have found it out it’s not there, it’s alright but you have not yet found so just to deny something is not is not scientific at all. So these are all scientists we have here.
[UNCLEAR]  - 是的，你看看昆达利尼是如何工作的以及它是如何提供这种东西的。当然，你会得到一些小纸，看看它究竟是什么，它是如何运作的。你看，呃..你应该知道，因为它听起来像是一种魔法 - 它不是魔术，它根本就没有魔力。这种力量在我们体内，它上升，实际上升 - 在某些人中，你甚至可以看到三角骨的脉动，你实际上看到它，在它上升 - 在某些人，而不是我们所有人，有些人。哪里有阻碍你可以清楚地看到它，但有些人只是它射击然后你可以自己感觉到你的头上凉爽的微风，你可以感受到你的手上凉爽的微风，但每个人都没有得到它。可能有些人没有得到它。我想，有些人没有得到它，大约两个月，三个月 - 但他们最终得到了它 - 但你必须像任何科学家一样保持开放。只是否认某事，说没有上帝，是不科学的。你还没有发现它存在于上帝或不存在的地方所以保留它作为一个假设并亲自看看它是否存在，如果你发现它不在那里，它没关系但是你还没有找到这样只是否认事情根本就不科学。所以这些都是我们在这里的科学家。

Dr. Nigam is here, all of them are here and you see, how sahaja yoga – [ASIDE – AAP TASHREEF RAKHIYE – [UNCLEAR]]. Now, you see, this is how I’m asking Dr. Spiro to just tell you how the Kundalini rises, passes through different centers and how it pierces through the last one here and what is the result, ultimate result of it which will tell you in short so you will know it’s no magic, it’s just like a sprouting of the seed – simple thing as that but as you cannot manifest that – you cannot manifest it normally unless and until you have the Mother Earth or you have the Holy Mother, I think, you can’t do it – that’s the only point is.
Nigam博士在这里，所有人都在这里，你看，霎哈嘉瑜伽如何 -  [ASIDE  -  AAP TASHREEF RAKHIYE  -  [UNCLEAR]]。现在，你看，这就是我要求Spiro医生告诉你昆达里尼如何上升，穿过不同的中心以及它如何穿过最后一个中心，结果是什么，它的最终结果将告诉你你简而言之，所以你会知道这不是魔法，它就像种子的萌芽一样 - 简单的事情，但你无法表现出来 - 你不能正常表现它，除非你有地球母亲或你有圣母，我想，你不能这样做 - 这是唯一的一点。

David Spiro:
大卫斯皮罗：

[INAUDIBLE] So, in in brief the hypothesis that we have in sahaja yoga is that, at the base of the spine at the level of the Sacrum bone there is a vital energy which we call Kundalini and during the process of sahaja yoga this energy is awakened and rises. Now one doesn’t have to have any special uh… depth or experience in order to know that something is happening because as Shri Mataji has just mentioned, in many cases one can actually see it with the naked eye so it’s not, that’s not something that one has to take on trust, is a very simple observation one can make for that for saying that something is happening which is outside of our normal physiology – it’s not something that’s explained by the usual physiology that we understand. Now the nervous system is divided, for the purposes of this, we can take three main divisions – the right and the left sympathetic and in the center is what, the Parasympathetic Nervous System and these three together form the Autonomic Nervous System and this Autonomic Nervous System is collected in, what in medicine we call plexuses, which in terms of yoga we call chakras which are arranged in the body and both the right and the left sympathetic contribute elements towards each of these plexuses so if, if I can just use my hands, it’s like that, so the right and the left each form a plexus. Okay, thanks. So, in the normal course of, in the normal situation one is just using the two sympathetic sides, right and left, and so there’s a tendency for that central part to be reduced because this activity on the left or the right and it pulls it a little bit. So in that way the plexus or the chakra, if you like, is being constricted and that means that there is less energy able to flow through the central channel. What happens in sahaja yoga is that, this process is reversed because the central channel becomes active for the first time – rather than being a potential source of energy it becomes actual and so there’s the tendency is for the plexus to dilate. So, as Professor Rai has already said, through the practice of sahaja yoga the Nervous System achieves a balance allowing the vital energy of the body to express itself and in each at each level of each chakra this happens so the organs at that level are nourished and it’s in this way that the diseases are cured – not that one necessarily needs to even try and cure the disease, it happens automatically. – Thank you! – Thank You, Shri Mataji!
[听不清]因此，简而言之，我们在霎哈嘉瑜伽中的假设是，在骶骨水平的脊柱底部有一种重要的能量，我们称之为昆达利尼，在霎哈嘉瑜伽过程中，这种能量被唤醒并升起。现在一个人没有任何特殊的呃...深度或经验，以便知道事情正在发生，因为正如Shri Mataji刚刚提到的，在许多情况下，人们实际上可以用肉眼看到它，所以它不是，这不是什么一个人必须接受信任，这是一个非常简单的观察，可以用来说出发生在我们正常生理学之外的事情 - 这不是我们所理解的通常生理学所解释的东西。现在神经系统被分开了，为了这个目的，我们可以采取三个主要的分区 - 右侧和左侧的交感神经和中心是什么，副交感神经系统和这三个一起形成自主神经系统和这自主神经紧张系统被收集起来，在医学中我们称之为神经丛，在瑜伽方面我们称之为排列在体内的脉轮，右侧和左侧的交感神经对这些神经丛中的每一个都有贡献，所以如果我可以使用我的手，就像那样，所以右边和左边各形成一个丛。好的谢谢。因此，在正常情况下，在正常情况下，一个人只是使​​用左右两个交感神经的侧面，因此这个中心部分有一个倾向，因为这个活动在左边或右边，它拉动它一点点。因此，如果您愿意，丛或脉轮正在受到限制，这意味着能够流过中央通道的能量更少。在霎哈嘉瑜伽中发生的事情是，这个过程是相反的，因为中央通道第一次变得活跃 - 而不是潜在的能量来源它变得实际，所以有一种趋势是丛的扩张。因此，正如赖教授已经说过的那样，通过练习霎哈嘉瑜伽，神经系统实现了平衡，允许身体的重要能量表达自己，并且在每个脉轮的每个水平的每一个都发生这种情况，从而使这个级别的器官得到滋养通过这种方式，疾病得以治愈 - 不一定需要甚至尝试和治愈疾病，它会自动发生。 - 谢谢！ - 谢谢你，Shri Mataji！

Shri Mataji:
锡吕玛塔吉：

We have so many doctors here and now I would say that, you see this – I, I also had to study medicine to talk to them and I also read a little bit of Psychology because to talk to them I must use their terminology but all this knowledge is within yourself. We know very little about it because a very little part, a wee part of our brain is really manifesting in a human awareness, you see. When the Kundalini rises – actually we have two lobes, we don’t have one lobe so there are two sides to our personality. When the Kundalini rises She enlightens the brain and then you start knowing many more things which you have never known. For example, uh.. I’ll ask Karan Khurana to come. He was a very ordinary student here who went down to America and one day he just asked Me a question on Genetics. So Genetics is a very modern science but he was amazed – [UNCLEAR] tum bata do.
我们这里有这么多医生，现在我会说，你看到了这一点 - 我，我也必须学习医学与他们交谈，我也读了一点心理学，因为要和他们交谈，我必须使用他们的术语，但所有这些知识属于你自己。我们对此知之甚少，因为你知道，只有很小的一部分，我们大脑的一部分才真正体现在人类的意识中。当昆达里尼升起 - 实际上我们有两个叶，我们没有一个叶，所以我们的性格有两个方面。当昆达里尼升起时，她启发了大脑，然后你开始了解更多你从未知道的东西。例如，呃..我会问Karan Khurana来。他是一个非常普通的学生，去了美国，有一天他向我问了一个关于遗传学的问题。所以遗传学是一门非常现代的科学，但他很惊讶 -  [UNCLEAR] tum bata。

Karan Khurana:
Karan Khurana：

Uh.. I want to share just a small glimpse of Shri Mataji’s brilliant knowledge because so many people have spoken about sahaja yoga and it’s brilliant effects and during the past seven years I’ve been a student at the University of California in San Diego and I’ve had a chance to attend many lectures in Biochemistry and Genetics and Immunology and at the end of, all the knowledge that is to be shared by the Professors in these brilliant Universities, they all come to the same point and they say, we cannot play the role of God so we cannot give you all the knowledge. About one year ago I was with Shri Mataji at Her home and during that time She was explaining about how various, how the knowledge is revealed and I asked Her about a question on the genetic effects and how AIDS comes about, and how on the genetic level we can go about researching on AIDS. She spoke about how Copper has an effect on AIDS and how in the body due to accumulation of copper there is a mutagenic effect specially when it accumulates in certain specific parts of the body like liver and how if the replacement of Copper takes place with a higher element like Zinc, with Platinum and with gold then that mutagenic effect will not take place. Also She spoke about enzymology and how when an enzyme interacts with a substrate it it can cleave, for example in a substrate the phosphate bond and reveals the iodine which then gives a colour effect and this is a tool that is used worldwide in diagnostic assays and diagnostic tests, is a clinical tool. She spoke about how this effect is enhanced and it is very necessary for a uh.. double positive metal ion to be present otherwise this reaction cannot take place. Scientifically we don’t understand how this reaction take place by the enzymes but when she revealed this I went back to California and I had a discussion with one of the top scientists in enzymology, Dr. Muzaffar Iqbal. He is a Professor from Oxford University who has been there for twenty years and is the top authority on enzymology and when I spoke to him about this divalent cations that Shri Mataji had spoken about and how we can use this for enhancing the stability and interaction and reactions of these enzymes – he immediately did some experiments and he found that we could actually stabilize these enzymes by the effect of these divalent cations like Magnesium and Manganese and we found that at 50 degrees temperature these enzymes get stable for three days, which is an absolute revolution. These enzymes have to be stored at 2-8 degrees at all times for it to have any interaction or any stability.
呃..我想分享一下Shri Mataji的精彩知识，因为很多人都谈到了霎哈嘉瑜伽及其卓越的效果，在过去的七年里，我一直是加州大学圣迭戈分校的学生。我有机会参加生物化学，遗传学和免疫学的许多讲座，最后，在这些杰出的大学里，教授们将分享所有的知识，他们都有相同的观点，他们说，我们不能发挥上帝的作用所以我们不能给你所有的知识。大约一年前，我和她的家乡Shri Mataji在一起，在那段时间里，她正在解释各种各样的知识，知识是如何揭示的，我问她关于遗传效应和艾滋病如何发生的问题，以及如何对遗传进行研究我们可以研究艾滋病的水平。她谈到铜是如何影响艾滋病的，以及铜在积聚过程中如何在体内产生诱变效应，特别是当它积聚在身体的某些特定部位如肝脏时，以及如何以更高的铜更换铜像锌一样的元素，铂金和金，那么诱变效果就不会发生。此外，她还谈到了酶学以及酶如何与底物相互作用，它可以裂解，例如在底物中磷酸键并显示碘，然后产生颜色效果，这是一种全球用于诊断分析的工具。诊断测试，是一种临床工具。她谈到了这种效应是如何增强的，并且非常需要存在双正金属离子，否则不会发生这种反应。科学上我们不明白这种反应是如何通过酶发生的，但当她透露这一点时，我回到加利福尼亚，我与一位酶学领域的顶尖科学家Muzaffar Iqbal博士进行了讨论。他是牛津大学的教授，他在那里工作了二十年，是酶学领域的权威人士，当我和他谈到Shri Mataji谈到的这种二价阳离子以及我们如何利用它来增强稳定性和相互作用时这些酶的反应 - 他立即做了一些实验，他发现我们可以通过这些二价阳离子如镁和锰的作用来稳定这些酶，我们发现在50度温度下这些酶可以稳定三天，这是一个绝对革命。这些酶必须始终以2-8度储存，以使其具有任何相互作用或任何稳定性。

Also ever since She spoke about the effects of Copper and how AIDS is related we have many scientists who have been doing research in this field and just three weeks ago I attended a lecture by Dr. Sochman, who is a leader in this field and he explained how these uh… metal ions have mutagenic effects and this is something Shri Mataji spoke about a year ago so this knowledge is definitely there with Shri Mataji and She chooses to speak about it very rarely but those moments are very uh.. very much cherished by us because this is knowledge of the future – this is Modern Science and She’s had it for ever, I think.
自从她谈到铜的影响以及艾滋病如何相关以来，我们有许多科学家一直在这个领域进行研究，就在三周前，我参加了Sochman博士的讲座，他是该领域的领导者，他解释了这些呃......金属离子是如何具有致突变作用的，这是Shri Mataji一年前所说的内容所以这些知识肯定与Shri Mataji有关，她选择很少谈论它，但那些时刻非常呃......非常珍惜因为这是对未来的了解 - 这是现代科学，我认为她永远拥有它。

Shri Mataji:
锡吕玛塔吉：

Thank you very much! Now, there’s another, you see, now the point he has brought it that through sahaja yoga I can give you a, a future plan as to how to make research in what direction so I would uh.. request Dr. Worlikar who came for your scientific research uh..conference you had and he was one of the five speakers here and he’ll tell you about what I told him about carbon atom and just how he have researched and found out. So I mean, I can give them a lead to find out what I am saying if it is true or not but one has to be – you see, these are scientists of a very high degree and high level and they have reached a point where they want to see what is beyond this and that should be there otherwise with mediocracy uh.. you cannot enter into this area, you see, you have to have that sharpness about it and this what Dr. Worlikar who has been [MARATHI] He was one of the scientists who spoke here in your conference, one of the five scientist.
非常感谢你！现在，还有另一个，你看，现在他已经提出了这一点，通过霎哈嘉瑜伽，我可以给你一个关于如何在哪个方向进行研究的未来计划，所以我会呃...请求Worlikar博士前来你的科学研究呃......你有这样的会议，他是这里的五位发言人之一，他会告诉你我告诉他关于碳原子的事情以及他是如何研究和发现的。所以我的意思是，我可以让他们带头找出我说的话，如果它是真的，但必须是 - 你看，这些都是非常高度和高水平的科学家，他们已达到了他们希望看到超出这个范围的东西，除了平庸之外应该在那里呃......你不能进入这个领域，你知道，你必须对它有这种敏锐性，这就是Worlikar博士一直以来[MARATHI]他是你在会议上发言的科学家之一，是五位科学家之一。

Dr.Worlikar:
Vorlikar博士：

Shri Mataji, ladies and gentleman – She has introduced me that I have been in United States for last eighteen years. I have done my Ph.D. from University of Bombay with a very eminent scientist called K. S. Nargun, who spent ten years while working with a Nobel Prize winner Thorpe, in London. After doing Medicinal Chemistry Ph.D in Anti-tuberculosis compounds I had an opportunity to go to United States where I did work with a scientist called Dr. H. Herbert Fox who invented Ionish as a drug for tuberculosis. So having been exposed to good scientist, when you do Ph.D. in your life, more you study, more you realize how little you know and that’s what I, I was all the time thinking in my life is, I wanted a direct connection with All-Pervading power. So since my childhood I did Atharvasheesh to Lord Ganesha. All the Maharashtrians – I’m Maharashtrian – since my childhood I started worshipping Lord and Aaradhya devatva was Lord Ganesha.
Shri Mataji，女士们，先生们 - 她告诉我，我去过美国已有18年了。我做过博士学位。来自孟买大学的一位名叫K. S. Nargun的非常着名的科学家，他在伦敦与诺贝尔奖得主索普一起工作了十年。在做了抗结核化合物的药物化学博士学位后，我有机会去了美国，在那里我和一位名叫H.Herbert Fox博士的科学家合作，他发明了Ionish作为结核病的药物。因此，当你做博士学位时，接触过优秀的科学家。在你的生活中，你学习的越多，你就会意识到自己知之甚少，这就是我，我一生都在思考的是，我希望与全能的力量直接联系。所以从我小时候起，我就把Atharvasheesh带到Ganesha阁下。所有的马哈拉施特拉邦人 - 我是马哈拉施特拉邦人 - 从我小时候就开始崇拜Lord和Aaradhya devatva是Ganesha阁下。

Every time I would do Atharwasheesha I would feel everyday there is something beyond this and I was looking for some guru, who could connect me to All-Pervading power. In 1981, Shri Mataji came to United States and I was blessed by Her. She raised my Kundalini whereby all the Deities were invoked and a different, a different life started after having realized by Her Holiness Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, my life took a different turn and then She has blessed me with a special blessing called enlightened attention. When you raise your Kundalini, the Divine powers of Parvati, all the deities on our chakra – there are seven chakras in our body, the last chakra is Sahastrara chakra of which She is Swamini. By doing Lord Ganesha’s worship, the chakras up to Hamsa chakra, get manifested. You get power of discretion but once you get realized and the Kundalini is awakened, the power of Parvati awakened, integration of all the chakras takes place. They work very, very pronouncedly and the vibrations you feel in the form of cool breeze on your fontanel bone and on your hands, on your palm, indicate the existence of All-Pervading power. Now when you do meditation – a lot of doctors here mentioned to you about sahaja yoga – what is sahaja yoga is, is spontaneous union with All-Pervading power. Now once you raise your Kundalini to a point where my hand is up – is called Valaya – all the incarnations come up to Valaya. The human beings have to reach Incarnations at that point so there is a need for every human being to get realized, do meditations day in and day out, raise your Kundalini, get connected to All-pervading power, then you realize that guru is the pure source of knowledge.
每次我都会做Atharwasheesha，我会觉得每天都有一些东西超出这个范围而我正在寻找一些能够将我连接到无所不能的力量的大师。 1981年，Shri Mataji来到美国，我得到了她的祝福。她举起了我的昆达里尼，所有的神灵都被引用，并且在尊者Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi意识到之后开始了另一种不同的生活，我的生活发生了不同的变化，然后她给了我一个特别的祝福，称为开明的注意力。当你举起你的昆达利尼，帕瓦蒂神圣的力量，我们脉轮上的所有神灵 - 我们体内有七个脉轮，最后一个脉轮是Sahastrara脉轮，她是斯瓦米尼。通过做Ganesha勋爵的崇拜，到Hamsa脉轮的脉轮，得到表现。你获得了自由裁量权，但是一旦你意识到并且昆达利尼被唤醒，Parvati的力量就会被唤醒，所有脉轮的整合就会发生。它们非常非常明显地工作，你在囟门骨头和手上，手掌上以微风的形式感受到的振动表明存在着无所不在的力量。现在，当你做冥想时 - 这里有很多医生向你提到霎哈嘉瑜伽 - 什么是霎哈嘉瑜伽，是自发的与所有普遍的力量联合。现在，一旦你将昆达里尼提升到我的手已经到达的地步 - 被称为Valaya  - 所有的化身都来到Valaya。人类必须在那时达到化身，所以每个人都需要实现，日复一日地进行冥想，提升你的昆达里尼，接触无所不在的力量，然后你意识到大师就是纯粹的知识来源。

I have read lots and lots of book in Chemistry. I was a professor of Organic Chemistry in University of Bombay, affiliated college Ramniranjan Jhunjhunwala College. I was teaching in Adarsh Science Institute, where I taught students who have failed at Inter-Science in those days and my students could become doctors and engineers after attending a one year course which were teaching in a private institution. I have taught in Agarwal’s classes for I.I.T. entrance exam where students who have stood first in S.S.C., second, used to attend a lecture and eight hundred students used to come all over India and they used to stand from Agarwal’s classes uh.. where the maximum high level education was imparted to them and from that institution thirty students, first thirty students used to be from Agarwal’s classes. What I’m trying to tell you is before getting realized there was a particular shape of my life but after meeting Her I went to completion. Once you are connected to All-Pervading power – why I taught, brought this subject, I was professor of Organic Chemistry, I had a habit of reading, most of the time, books written by Nobel Prize winners from U.C. Berkeley, Mahan’s book was, was good for Tacheometry. There’s a chapter, one chapter and I would read ten different books from foreign authors who had, one time or other, acquired Nobel Prize. I used to get thrilled and I used to, as a magnanimity of scholarship, share everything with my students and with high level students my level used to go high and I studied at a very high level Electronic theory of valency, which after getting realized from Mother, I found a different dimension, that you are given things if you are having enlightened attention.
我读过很多很多关于化学的书。我是孟买大学有机化学教授，隶属于Ramniranjan Jhunjhunwala学院。我在Adarsh科学研究所任教，在那里我教授那些在Inter-Science失败的学生，我的学生在参加了一个在私立学校教学的一年课程后可以成为医生和工程师。我曾在Agarwal的班级里教过I.I.T.入学考试的学生谁曾经站在SSC第一，第二，曾经参加过一个讲座，有八百名学生来到印度各地，他们过去常常从Agarwal的课堂上站起来......那里给予了他们最大的高等教育和来自该机构的30名学生，前三十名学生曾经来自Agarwal的班级。我想告诉你的是，在意识到我的生活中有一种特殊的形状但是在遇到她之后我就完成了。一旦你接触到无所不在的力量 - 为什么我教导，带来这个主题，我是有机化学教授，我有阅读的习惯，大部分时间都是由英国诺贝尔奖获得者写的书。 Mahan的书Berkeley对Tacheometry很有用。有一章，一章，我将阅读十本不同的书籍，这些书籍来自外国作家，曾经有过一次或多次获得诺贝尔奖。我曾经很兴奋，而且我曾经作为奖学金的宽宏大量，与我的学生和高水平的学生分享一切，我的水平过去很高，我学习了很高水平的电子价值理论，后来实现了妈妈，我发现了一个不同的维度，如果你有开明的注意力，你会得到一些东西。

What I thought, I don’t know, I don’t see a picture which we call Virata where all the seven chakras are presented to the audience where you can clearly visualize the seven chakras in every human body starting with Muladhara chakra. – Now the – yes, yes correct – you have a – [MARATHI] Muladhara – Yeah, yeah – [MARATHI] – So – Chemistry I was attending a guru puja in Santa Cruz and was concentrating on the Muladhara chakra where we have four plexus to Muladhara chakra which is considered to be Lord Ganesha’s chakra – seat for Lord Ganesha. Now what I did is, while doing meditation I was directly connected and I was given a inspiration that I should depict that chakra in three dimension. If you see the Muladhara chakra in the, in the Virata there picture, it is only Swastika there – It is below the Kundalini – so what I did is – by the blessing of enlightened attention She had bestowed on me – we made a three dimensional structure of Carbon atom being a organic chemist and then used the Electronic theory of valency to formulate the valencies of carbon atom on modern basis. Just in one short sentence I could say that, the structure of atom was proposed by Danish Physicist Neil Bohr, who got a Nobel Prize for that. He discussed the movement of electrons which have speed of light around a nucleus and give a mathematical expression for Hydrogen spectrum as a proof, single electron atom and then he got a Nobel Prize. His theory of orbit became obsolete when we came into Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle where you cannot predict the position of a moving body. So currently we consider orbital theory – the position of any moving body cannot be predicted therefore we consider a, a area in space – space where you can locate the electron – Now I have a article – Mother asked me to put the thoughts –
我的想法，我不知道，我没有看到一张我们称之为Virata的照片，其中所有七个脉轮都呈现给观众，在那里你可以清楚地想象出每个人体中的七个脉轮，从Muladhara脉轮开始。 - 现在 - 是的，是的正确 - 你有 -  [MARATHI] Muladhara  - 是的，是的 -  [MARATHI]  - 所以 - 化学我正在圣克鲁斯参加一个大师puja并且专注于我们有四个丛的Muladhara脉轮到Muladhara脉轮，被认为是Ganesha勋爵的脉轮 -  Ganesha勋爵的座位。现在我所做的是，在做冥想的时候，我直接联系起来，给了我灵感，我应该用三维来描绘这个脉轮。如果你看到Miradhara脉轮，在Virata那里有图片，那里只有Sw字 - 它在Kundalini下面 - 所以我所做的是 - 通过她赋予我的开明关注的祝福 - 我们制作了一个三维碳原子的结构是一种有机化学家，然后利用电子理论的价值来制定现代碳原子的价态。我可以说，在一个简短的句子中，原子的结构是由丹麦物理学家尼尔·波尔提出的，他获得了诺贝尔奖。他讨论了电子在核周围具有光速的运动，并给出了氢谱作为证明单电子原子的数学表达式，然后他获得了诺贝尔奖。当我们进入海森堡的不确定性原理时，他无法预测运动物体的位置，他的轨道理论已经过时了。所以目前我们考虑轨道理论 - 任何运动体的位置都无法预测，因此我们考虑一个空间区域 - 你可以找到电子的空间 - 现在我有一篇文章 - 母亲让我把想法 -

Shri Mataji:
锡吕玛塔吉：

I think his article is there –
我认为他的文章就在那里 -

Dr. Worlikar:
Vorlikar博士：

Yeah – There is a article on cosmic relation of Swastika and Om – [UNCLEAR] Now what I did is, made a tetrahedral structure of Carbon atom, put Carbon in the center and considered the latest orbital theory of movement of electron in space and in that I considered Carbon has four electrons – one in a 2s orbital which is spherical and three electrons in the dumbbell shaped orbital which is in X, Y and Z axis The 2 [UNCLEAR – PZ?] orbital is vacant no electron there but in the excited state one electron from 2s goes to 2pz and then to an ordinary person when you think ordinarily, you will find three energy levels of those three electrons should be same and one in 2s in a lower energy is different. So it bothered me as a student of Organic Chemistry that Carbon should have three equal valencies and one weak valency.
是的 - 有一篇关于Swastika和Om的宇宙关系的文章 -  [UNCLEAR]我现在所做的是，制作一个碳原子的四面体结构，将碳置于中心并考虑最新的轨道电子运动理论在空间和我认为碳有四个电子 - 一个在2s轨道中是球形，三个电子在哑铃形轨道中是在X，Y和Z轴上2 [UNCLEAR  -  PZ？]轨道是空的，没有电子那里但是在激发态从2s的一个电子变为2pz，然后当你通常想到普通人时，你会发现这三个电子的三个能级应该是相同的，而能量较低的两个中的一个能量是不同的。因此，作为有机化学的学生，我认为碳应该具有三种相同的价值和一种弱的价值。

[UNCLEAR] something we could discuss somewhere else, let me just concentrate on what I did. So we made a actual tetrahedral structure and took the advantage of modern theory of electron valency and considered orbital theory. What I found when I was putting my enlightened attention – let me tell you the significance of enlightened attention. When you raise your Kundalini and put your attention on the Kundalini, your attention gets enlightened. If you put it on any unknown thing, that thing reveals it’s true nature. So you are given things when you are connected to All-Pervading power. So I was putting my enlightened attention to this tetrahedral model of Carbon atom, just trying to see the four valencies of Carbon in space considering the orbital theory. I, I had a computer scientist help me, from Belgium, Johan and another sahaja yogi from Chicago, Boston and he made the tetrahedral structure and we, me and Johan used to sit at my house in Los Angeles and put our attention on that model trying to see Om. I would see 3 but I wouldn’t see I could, I wouldn’t see the upper residual valency and we used to put lot of enlightened attention, meditation – sahaja yoga practices is nothing else but everyday you do meditation. Now what we found, with the enlightened attention what I found, that one of the valency was not properly done by Jay because he just made all four dumbbell shaped orbitals.
[UNCLEAR]我们可以在其他地方讨论的事情，让我专注于我所做的事情。因此，我们制作了一个实际的四面体结构，并利用现代电子价理论和轨道理论。当我开始引起我的注意时，我发现了什么 - 让我告诉你开明注意力的重要性。当你举起昆达利尼并把注意力集中在昆达里尼身上时，你的注意力就会受到启发。如果你把它放在任何未知的东西上，那东西就会揭示它的本性。所以当你连接到普遍存在的力量时，你会获得一些东西。所以我开始关注碳原子的这个四面体模型，只是考虑到轨道理论，试图看到空间中碳的四个价态。我，我有一位计算机科学家帮助我，来自比利时，约翰和来自芝加哥，波士顿的另一位霎哈嘉瑜伽士，他做了四面体结构我们，我和约翰常常坐在我位于洛杉矶的房子里，把我们的注意力放在那个模型上试图看到Om。我会看到3，但我不会看到我可以，我不会看到上残留的价值，我们曾经把很多开明的注意力，冥想 - 霎哈嘉瑜伽练习只不过是每天你做冥想。现在我们发现，在我发现的开明的注意力下，杰伊没有正确地完成其中一个因为他刚制作了所有四个哑铃形状的轨道。

He forgot to do sp3 hybridisation where all the four uh.. sphere orbitals rearrange themselves – is called sp3 hybridisation where we call one electron in s orbit and three in p orbital. After I did that sp3 hybridisation I could clearly see the residual valency of the Om. From the end, end view – see as a student of Technical School Robert Technical School so – I said, “Let me take a look at this model from – from the left –
他忘了做sp3杂交，其中所有四个球状轨道都重新排列 - 被称为sp3杂化，我们称之为轨道中的一个电子和p轨道中的三个。在我做了sp3杂交后，我可以清楚地看到Om的剩余效价。从最后，结束看 - 作为技术学校罗伯特技术学校的学生，所以 - 我说，“让我看一下这个模型 - 从左边 -

Shri Mataji:
锡吕玛塔吉：

from the left – If you see from the left, right I told them you will see Aum and they saw it. – Yeah So from the left I saw Aum.
从左边开始 - 如果从左边看，右边我告诉他们你会看到Aum他们看到了。 - 是的所以从左边我看到了奥姆。

Dr.Worlikar:
Vorlikar博士：

Now I said, “Let me see from the right what do I see,” and I saw Swastika. Same three dimensional figure you can see Aum from one side and Swastika from other side. – and was amazed to see that, the correlation, I call it cosmic correlation between Aum and Swastika – [UNCLEAR – MARATHI] and then I met Shri Mataji in Houston – She was visiting U.S.A. and She said, “Did you take a look at your tetrahedral model from the bottom,” and I said, “No Shri Mataji, I haven’t.” She said, “If you take a look to your tetrahedral model from the bottom, I’m sure you will see cross.” So I returned from Texas to my house in Los Angeles and to my surprise, when I took a look at the tetrahedral model, I had made, from the bottom, it, it gave cross sign – it depicted cross. So you see how they are, they are coordinated with each other.
现在我说，“让我从右边看到我看到了什么，”我看到了Swastika。同样的三维图形，你可以从一侧看到Aum，从另一侧看到Swastika。 - 并且惊讶地看到，相关性，我称之为Aum和Swastika之间的宇宙相关性-  [UNCLEAR  -  MARATHI]然后我在休斯顿遇到了Shri Mataji  - 她正在访问美国，她说，“你看看了吗？你的四面体模型从底部开始，“我说，”没有Shri Mataji，我没有。“她说，”如果从底部看你的四面体模型，我相信你会看到十字架。“所以我从德克萨斯回到了我在洛杉矶的家，令我惊讶的是，当我看到四面体模型时，我从底部做了它，它给出了十字标志 - 它描绘了十字架。所以你看他们是如何，他们是相互协调的。

This was possible because of enlightened attention that was bestowed on me by Shri Mataji. Now, what I have to say is Aum – as you know, Pranava, the sound of creation – is represented by, when we write it on two dimension, we write Aum. Actually, Aum is a three dimension, dimensional depiction of the sound of creation and Swastika is the two dimensional depiction of Aum. It is hard to see this difference when we write Aum and Swastika side by side on a blackboard, let us say, which we call two dimension. So, I have been a student of science all throughout my life and I had kept open mind when She came to Los Angeles, in 1981. 1986 I was speaking on the event of Her birthday, I told everybody that you people are in India, you are lucky. You could get your realization and you will have a different dimension to your life. I had to go all the way to America to get realization.
这是可能的，因为Shri Mataji赋予我的开明的注意力。现在，我要说的是Aum  - 正如你所知，Pranava，创作的声音 - 代表着，当我们在二维上写它时，我们写Aum。实际上，Aum是对创作声音的三维立体描绘，而Sw字是Aum的二维描绘。当我们在黑板上并排写Aum和Swastika时很难看出这种差异，让我们说，我们称之为二维。所以，我一生都是科学的学生，1981年她来到洛杉矶时我一直保持开放的态度。1986年我在她生日那天发表讲话，我告诉所有人你们人在印度，你很幸运。你可以得到你的认识，你将拥有与生活不同的维度。我不得不一路走到美国去实现。

Shri Mataji:
锡吕玛塔吉：

I would like Dr. Mishra to tell you something about the soul because there’s always a challenge about soul and dead soul and this and that and whatever I told long time back how now they have discovered that it exists. I’m just trying to show you because this is a unique thing and we, as he says, that he had to go to America but only in America they will understand it, not in India – I know this.
我希望Mishra博士能告诉你一些关于灵魂的事情，因为对于灵魂和死灵魂总是存在挑战，而且无论我多久回忆他们现在如何发现它存在。我只是想告诉你，因为这是一个独特的事情，正如他所说，我们必须去美国，但只有在美国，他们才会理解它，而不是在印度 - 我知道这一点。

– Why, why not in India? – You see because you have to reach that state of, I should say, of search see they have reached the la…. You see here, our, our heritage is Spirituality not Science but in America it is Science. So they have reached to the end of it, you see, sort of they have reached to the end of everything – extremes – so scientists there start looking back while ours is, we can understand it much faster because our heritage is this. Our heritage is true Spirituality but as scientists, it’s only in the West they will understand because they have reached to the end of it, you see, so they want to see it much faster. Like as he said it, in Russia – Russian scientists are of a very high level. You know they have – one fellow gave Me a book on the Mathematical Calculation of Shri Chakra and he came and asked Me, then I told him about Shri Chakra and all that. He was amazed, he said, “Nobody knows this in India, how’s it?” I said, “We’re still uh.. running after you scientist, you see, still we are trying to work,” but, you see, Science itself you know, has to be balanced uh.. with uh.. other things like Humanity because Science itself is very dry. Now, the Science also can take advantage of sahaja yoga as doctor has told you. Now what sahaja yoga has done, is to abridge the gap between the Spirituality – of the true Spirituality, the knowledge of Spirituality and the Science as they have done it.
 - 为什么，为什么不在印度呢？ - 你看，因为你必须达到搜索状态，我应该说，他们已经达到了......你在这里看到，我们的遗产是灵性而非科学，但在美国，它是科学。所以他们已经达到了它的终点，你知道，他们已经达到了一切的极端 - 极端 - 所以那里的科学家开始回顾我们的，我们可以更快地理解它，因为我们的传统就是这样。我们的传统是真正的灵性，但作为科学家，只有在西方，他们才能理解，因为他们已经达到了它的终点，你看，所以他们希望看到它更快。就像他说的那样，在俄罗斯 - 俄罗斯科学家的水平很高。你知道他们有 - 一位家伙给了我一本关于Shri Chakra的数学计算的书，然后他来问我，然后我告诉了他关于Shri Chakra的一切。令他感到惊讶的是，他说，“在印度没有人知道，这是怎么回事？”我说，“我们仍然呃......追赶你的科学家，你看，我们仍在努力工作，”但是，你看，你知道的科学本身，必须要平衡......呃......其他的东西，比如人类，因为科学本身非常干燥。现在，科学也可以利用医生告诉你的霎哈嘉瑜伽。现在霎哈嘉瑜伽所做的，就是缩小灵性 - 真正的灵性，灵性的知识和他们所做的科学之间的差距。

So I would like, one more doctor to tell you, Dr. Mishra. He’s, he’s, I asked him to write your degree so he wrote so many so now, I don’t know, he he will tell you about the soul what I said. Whatever I have said they could prove it so this is, this is something, the way they have bridged it, you see, but the kind of patience they have, the kind of respect they have – we don’t have that so much about scientifically. If there’s a scientist in India, he wouldn’t have that much of openness – is a fact, I tell you. But we have some scientist here from India also.
所以我想再告诉你一位医生Mishra博士。他是，他是，我让他写你的学位所以他现在写了这么多，我不知道，他会告诉你我所说的灵魂。无论我说了什么，他们都可以证明这一点，这就是它，他们已经把它连接起来的方式，你看，但是他们有那种耐心，他们有那种尊重 - 我们没有这么多关于科学。如果在印度有一位科学家，他就不会那么开放 - 这是事实，我告诉你。但我们也有来自印度的科学家。

Dr.Ram Mishra:
Ram Mishra博士：

Shri Mataji and fellow colleagues, my name is Ram Mishra and I did my undergraduate medical degree in New Orleans, Louisiana, followed by a doctorate in Biochemistry at Memorial University in Canada. Currently I’m Professor of Psychiatry, Director of Neuro-psyche [UNCLEAR] pharmacology laboratory and Consultant to mental NIMH – it’s National Institute of Mental Health, United States, Medical Research Council of Canada, Ontario Mental Health foundation, National Council of Canada, NCIA of United States. Now, I have been heavily engaged in research activities relating to cell membranes and the different types of the interceptors and in last four or five years it became very clear that the variety of drugs, variety of medicines – the drugs is a bad name sometimes – uh.. interact with the specific types of the receptors on the cells. For example the antihypertensive drugs interact with the beta-receptors, sulphur receptors in heart cells, asthmatic drugs interact with the beta-receptors in the lungs, the antipsychotic drugs, antischizophrenic drugs, antiparkinsonian drugs, anti-anxiety drugs, anti-huntington’s chorea drugs – they all interact with the set of the receptors and when we look at the structure of the receptors – now other scientist who already got the Nobel Prize, discovered the beta-receptors structure and I was working on the dopamine receptor which interacts with the uh… neurotransmitters and the antipsychotic drugs. Now what is common in all these receptors is that, they always make a seven member membrane loop. Now the words in the membranes they organized in such a way so you always have seven loops – not eight, not nine, not six, not twelve – always have seven.
Shri Mataji和同事们，我的名字是Ram Mishra，我在路易斯安那州新奥尔良获得了本科医学学位，随后在加拿大纪念大学获得了生物化学博士学位。目前，我是精神病学教授，神经心理学[UNCLEAR]药理实验室主任和精神NIMH顾问 - 美国国家精神卫生研究所，加拿大医学研究委员会，安大略省心理健康基金会，加拿大国民议会，美国NCIA。现在，我一直积极参与有关细胞膜和不同类型的拦截器的研究活动，在过去的四五年里，很明显各种药物，各种药物 - 药物有时候是一个坏名字 - 呃..与细胞上特定类型的受体相互作用。例如，抗高血压药物与β-受体，心脏细胞中的硫受体相互作用，哮喘药物与肺中的β-受体相互作用，抗精神病药物，抗精神分裂症药物，抗帕金森病药物，抗焦虑药物，抗亨廷顿氏舞蹈病药物 - 它们都与受体组相互作用，当我们观察受体的结构时 - 现在已经获得诺贝尔奖的其他科学家发现了β-受体结构，我正在研究与呃相互作用的多巴胺受体...神经递质和抗精神病药物。现在所有这些受体中常见的是，它们总是形成七个成员的膜环。现在他们以这种方式组织的膜中的单词，所以你总是有七个循环 - 不是八个，不是九个，不是六个，而不是十二个 - 总是有七个。

– And when I was lecturing in the class that these receptors make seven loops.  [Shri Mataji: Seven loops]  They organize in such a fashion that they always make seven loops. Now there are different kinds, there are one thousand different kinds of receptors but each one make a seven loop and the, obviously the M.B.B.S. students asked me the question, “Why there is seven loops, why not nine, why not eight?” and I said that has I kept quiet actually and then there was another student who said, “It has something to do with the God.” So, that was the actual answer and fortunately I met Shri Mataji in London one time and had a chance to to show the diagrams and the pictures of the different types of the receptors and you can also see yourself there are several types of the receptors on this sheet from human, from bovine, from red and if you look very carefully, they always make the seven loops. If you look at the three dimensional structures or the models of – you can also see the seven rings in these receptors. Now, what is the significance of these seven rings? I think to me they look like they represent the mini chakras in each cell and especially in the heart cells they represent the soul, so after a person passes away or dies or whatever happens, these souls who represents in seven rings are released in the atmosphere and it is possible for the sahaja yogis who practice  sahaja yoga, to see the unsatisfied souls in the sky and in fact when we were having a meeting in New York, in July, Shri Mataji said that, “Look those unsatisfied souls in New York city are wandering around in the sky and in fact we were able to see those like loops there. By the same token you can also see the Chaitanya, the satisfied souls – you see in the form of the Chaitanya.
 - 当我在课堂上讲课时，这些受体会产生七个环。 [Shri Mataji：七个循环]他们以这样的方式组织，他们总是制作七个循环。现在有不同的种类，有一千种不同的受体，但每一种都形成一个七环，显然是M.B.B.S.学生问我这个问题，“为什么有七个循环，为什么不是九个，为什么不是八个？”我说我实际上保持安静，然后有另一个学生说：“这与上帝有关。 “所以，这才是真正的答案，幸运的是我曾在伦敦遇到过Shri Mataji，有机会展示不同类型受体的图表和图片，你也可以看到自己有几种类型的受体在这张纸上，来自人类，来自牛，来自红色，如果你仔细看，他们总是制作七个循环。如果你看一下三维结构或模型 - 你也可以看到这些受体中的七个环。现在，这七个戒指有什么意义？我想我们看起来他们代表着每个细胞中的迷你脉轮，特别是他们代表灵魂的心脏细胞，所以在一个人去世或死亡或发生任何事情之后，这些代表七环的灵魂会在大气层中释放出来练习霎哈嘉瑜伽的霎哈嘉瑜伽士有可能在天空中看到不满意的灵魂，事实上当我们七月份在纽约开会时，Shri Mataji说：“看看纽约那些不满意的灵魂城市在天空中四处游荡，事实上我们能够在那里看到那些环状物。出于同样的原因，你也可以看到Chaitanya，满足的灵魂 - 你看到Chaitanya的形式。

Shri Mataji: Like, like uh … you see them like commas, shining commas – Chaitanya – shining commas.
Shri Mataji：就像，呃......你看到他们像逗号，闪亮的逗号 -  Chaitanya  - 闪亮的逗号。

Dr. Mishra: So, that’s the, that’s the scientific proof. Uh.. the other thing I want to share with you is, is a follow-up experiment actually we did blindly. I didn’t know Dr. Chugh before I came here and he described his M.D. thesis while I met Shri Mataji in Guru Puja in Italy and I took Her permission to do couple of experiments of my own in my own lab and didn’t publish the study because it is still in the very preliminary state but I can assure you that it will be published in the – by blessings of Shri Mataji – in the first rate Scientific journal in United States. And the story is that we looked at the levels of the relaxing proteins called beta endorphins and enkephalins. Now these are the proteins which try to take your pain away, try to make you relax and do a lot of other things in the human system. And when the levels of these proteins goes down you suffer from many, many things – your blood pressure, your pain levels, your arthritis and so on so forth. Now, if you practice sahaja yogas, the levels of these Beta Endorphins and Enkephalins actually goes up. They goes up significantly compared to the other types of meditations like T.M. or Hatha yoga or whatever. Now the same question was asked to Dr. Chugh in his Ph.D. thesis by the examiners that, “Have you looked at the levels of the Beta Endorphins?” and what was your, I don’t know what you replied to them that, “You haven’t done it,” but the, the answer was already there in our lab – see how the connections are made to find out, find out the answer for the same question! Now, we have agreed that we will measure the levels of these proteins and see ourself from Indian sahaja yogis, from European sahaja yogis, from American and Canadian and we will see in worldwide geographical distribution in all sahaja yogis the levels of these proteins goes up. I think I should stop at this point.
米什拉博士：那就是，这就是科学证据。呃..我想与你分享的另一件事是，实际上我们盲目地做了一个后续实验。在我来到这里之前我不认识Chugh博士，当我在意大利的Guru Puja遇到Shri Mataji时他描述了他的MD论文，并且我允许她在我自己的实验室做我自己的几个实验并且没有发表该研究因为它仍处于初步状态，但我可以向你保证，它将在Shri Mataji的祝福中发表 - 在美国的一流科学期刊上发表。故事是我们研究了称为β内啡肽和脑啡肽的松弛蛋白质的水平。现在这些蛋白质试图消除你的痛苦，试图让你放松，并在人体系统中做很多其他的事情。当这些蛋白质水平下降时，你会遭受很多很多事情 - 你的血压，疼痛程度，关节炎等等。现在，如果你练习霎哈嘉瑜伽，这些β内啡肽和脑啡肽的含量实际上会上升。与T.M.等其他类型的冥想相比，它们显着上升。或哈达瑜伽或其他什么。现在，同样的问题被问到Chugh博士的博士学位。审查员的论文说：“你看过Beta内啡肽的水平吗？”你是什么，我不知道你回答他们的是什么，“你还没有做过”，但答案是，答案在我们的实验室已经存在 - 看看如何找到联系，找出同一个问题的答案！现在，我们已经同意我们将测量这些蛋白质的水平，并从印度霎哈嘉瑜伽，欧洲霎哈嘉瑜伽，美国和加拿大看到自己，我们将在所有霎哈嘉瑜伽的全球地理分布中看到这些蛋白质的水平上升。我想我应该停止这一点。

Shri Mataji:
锡吕玛塔吉：

Uh.. I would also request a diplomat from U.N. to talk what U.N. has to say about it because is important. We in uh.. in our country do not know what we have but the UN system itself has now accepted that Spirituality is a part and parcel of a human-being and it must be looked after and he will now tell you. This is Mr. Gregoire de Kalbermatten from – he is a Swiss diplomat. We have another Swiss diplomat here – where is she – Ruth [Flint] – just she’s there sitting.
呃..我还要求联合国的一位外交官谈谈联合国有关它的意见，因为这很重要。在我们国家，我们不知道我们拥有什么，但联合国系统本身现在已经接受灵性是人类的一部分，必须得到照顾，他现在会告诉你。这是Gregoire de Kalbermatten先生 - 他是瑞士外交官。我们在这里有另一位瑞士外交官 - 她在哪里 - 露丝[Flint]  - 只是她在那里坐着。

Gregoire de Kalbermatten:
G Gいべべべまって：

Thank you very much, Shri Mataji. After all the previous speakers, I hesitate a little bit umm, I hesitate to talk because I have no expertise neither scientific nor as a matter of fact in sahaja yoga but I have been fortunate to practice sahaja yoga for about 15 years now and what Shri Mataji just mentioned is that indeed sahaja yoga has been recognized by the [UNCLEAR – staff recreational] council of the United Nation has a comprehensive meditation system which brings physical, emotional, mental benefits to staff members and is sahaja. This society is encouraging staff members to meditate according to sahaja yoga’s technique but if I might be a little bit more global and more general than the conversation, the very high level presentation we have just heard now uh.. I would just like to stress that at the United Nation we are very, very concerned about the issues of global management or of Mother Earth resources and in the nineties one of the very rising issues is going to keep a balance between development and ecology between human activities and the resources which allow these activities to be sustained. You know that water is going to be a very big problem – just drinking water for the billions of people and in this respect there was a World Bank paper which was saying that, “A long term solution for mankind is only a change in consciousness so that the human-beings do not have any more the same material demand.
非常感谢，Shri Mataji。在所有前面的发言者之后，我犹豫了一点点，我犹豫不决，因为我没有科学也没有霎哈嘉瑜伽的专业知识但是我很幸运能够练习霎哈嘉瑜伽大约15年了，什么是Shri玛塔吉刚刚提到，确实霎哈嘉瑜伽已被联合国[UNCLEAR  - 职员娱乐]理事会认可，它具有全面的冥想系统，为工作人员带来身体，情感和心理上的好处，并且是霎哈嘉。这个社会鼓励工作人员根据霎哈嘉瑜伽的技巧进行冥想，但如果我可能比谈话更全面，更一般，我们刚才听到的非常高级别的演讲呃......我只想强调一下在联合国，我们非常非常关注全球管理或地球母亲资源的问题，并且在九十年代，一个正在崛起的问题是在人类活动与允许这些活动的资源之间保持发展与生态之间的平衡。要维持的活动。你知道水将成为一个非常大的问题 - 只为数十亿人喝水，在这方面世界银行的一篇论文说，“人类的长期解决方案只是意识的改变所以人类不再拥有相同的物质需求。

Shri Mataji: change in consciousness, change in awareness – they hit at that point.
Shri Mataji：意识的改变，意识的改变 - 他们在那一点上受到了打击。

Gregoire: This was a paper of the World Bank on Ecology, on the model of development which long term can allow all these human beings to survive on this planet – it’s a very serious issue because if you look at the projection uh.. nobody really knows how to take care of these billions of people who are being born and the, the solution was a change in consciousness. If people can be in a state of peace, can be in a state of satisfaction their demand on the material environment automatically is going to drop because a lot of what we produce is to meet artificial need, culturally created artificial needs and the only solution to get into this condition of contented peace can be brought by a inner transformation. Now the World Bank doesn’t know about sahaja yoga yet and that’s why they said, “This is the only way to get out but we don’t know how to bring about this transformation.” So as a, as a staff member of the United Nation, I can see a very direct relevance of uh.. sahaja yoga to help us changing our attitudes if, if we are to leave our children and grandchildren a place we are to live in.
格雷瓜尔：这是生态世界银行的一篇论文，关于发展模式，长期可以让所有这些人在这个星球上生存 - 这是一个非常严重的问题，因为如果你看一下投影呃...没有人真的知道如何照顾这些数十亿出生的人，解决方案是意识的改变。如果人们处于和平状态，可以处于满意状态，他们对物质环境的需求会自动下降，因为我们生产的很多东西都是为了满足人工需求，文化创造的人工需求和唯一的解决方案。进入这种满足的和平状态可以通过内在的转变来实现。现在世界银行还不知道霎哈嘉瑜伽，这就是为什么他们说，“这是唯一的出路，但我们不知道如何实现这种转变。”因此，作为一名工作人员，在联合国，我可以看到呃霎哈嘉瑜伽的一个非常直接的相关性，如果我们要让我们的孩子和孙子们留在我们居住的地方，帮助我们改变态度。

Shri Mataji:
锡吕玛塔吉：

You have also got the, you have also got meditation center for sahaja yoga in the U.N. now? –
你也有了，你现在还在联合国有霎哈嘉瑜伽冥想中心吗？ -

Gregoire: Uh… we, we have this society which has been created as of January in 1990 – That’s [UNCLEAR] and we hope that we start by before we talk about world peace, we hope in good logic we start becoming peaceful beings ourselves and then there’ll be less fight in one floor of the United Nation and the work will be more, more carried more effectively. I forgot to present myself. My name is Gregoire de Kalbermatten and I am Chief of Policy Planning and Evaluation in United Nation Capital Development Fund which invest projects in the list of developed countries of the world. Uh… by the Grace of Shri Mataji, I, I can say from my personal experience that uh… the the practice of sahaja yoga does influence us in a, in a state of consciousness which correspond to, to the definition of the state that collectively mankind should reach in order to develop a different type of society. This is a very general remark but I suppose that it needed to be made because the managers of society today cannot address anymore the complexities of the challenge that, that are before us and we need this higher level of guidance from inside that meditation gives us and as Dr. Worlikar said it before, before me it is all a matter of enlightened attention because then the solution just present themselves before us and no, no amount of efficiency would allow us to get there uh.. where the vibrations of  sahaja yoga lead us to the right solution spontaneously somehow. Shri Mataji, I think that’s all. Thank You! –
Gregoire：呃...我们，这个社会是在1990年1月创建的 - 那是[UNCLEAR]，我们希望我们在谈论世界和平之前就开始了，我们希望在良好的逻辑中我们自己开始成为和平的生物，那么联合国一层的战斗就会减少，工作会更多，更有效地进行。我忘记了自己。我的名字是Gregoire de Kalbermatten，我是联合国资本发展基金的政策规划和评估主任，该基金将项目投资于世界发达国家名单。呃...由Shri Mataji的Grace，我，我可以从我个人的经验中说，呃......霎哈嘉瑜伽的实践确实影响我们在一个意识状态中，对应于国家的定义集体人类应该达到以发展不同类型的社会。这是一个非常笼统的评论，但我认为它需要制作，因为当今社会的管理者不能再解决我们面前的挑战的复杂性，我们需要从冥想内部提供更高水平的指导，正如Worlikar博士之前所说的那样，在我面前这一切都是开明性的关注，因为那时解决方案只是出现在我们面前而不是，没有多少效率可以让我们到达那里呃...霎哈嘉瑜伽的振动导致我们以某种方式自发地找到正确的解决方案。 Shri Mataji，我认为这就是全部。谢谢！ -

Shri Mataji:
锡吕玛塔吉：

Thank you! Uh.. there’s another facet which uh.. one could see, it works in sahaja yoga, is the agriculture. We haven’t got Dr. Hamid just now here – he’s gone away. I wish he was here because he has experimented with vibrated water. I have also shown the experiments uh… in Poona that I sowed about 60 kilos of rice in one acre of area and we got about 1400 kilos of such beautiful rice that I sent it to the University, at Phule University in Rahuri and they said they have never seen such rice. Then they came all the way to see what I was experimenting with and also the uh.. Sunflower we got was about say two, two feet at least minimum and so full of big, big seeds – I mean, they never looked like the seed of the Sunflower and you had to at least two persons had to lift it, it was so heavy. Now the, here the main thing is that we have not used uh.. hybrid seeds because if you use hybrid seeds you get a, you have to uh… take them from some organization and sort of can be a enslavement but this is non-hybrid seed, ordinary seeds. Once we vibrate them – now this is how we can increase our capacity to produce much more, much more variety of crops. Also things like olives, they said will never grow but I have, I have grown that olives, lot of olives I’ve grown. Then they said that tulips will not grow – I’ve grown them. All kinds of things that they said will never grow in Poona and they are all growing very nicely. I don’t know how they just said it cannot be grown.
谢谢！呃..还有另外一个方面，呃......人们可以看到，它适用于霎哈嘉瑜伽，是农业。我们刚才没有哈米德博士 - 他已经离开了。我希望他在这里，因为他已经尝试过振动水。我还在Poona中展示了实验......我在一英亩的土地上播种了大约60公斤的大米，我们将大约1400公斤这样漂亮的大米送到大学，在Rahuri的Phule大学，他们说他们从未见过这样的大米。然后他们一路走来看我正在试验的东西以及呃......我们得到的向日葵是说两个，至少两英尺至少最小，而且充满了大而大的种子 - 我的意思是，它们看起来不像种子向日葵，你必须至少有两个人不得不抬起它，它太重了。现在，主要的是我们没有使用呃...杂交种子，因为如果你使用杂交种子你会得到一个，你必须呃...从一些组织中取出它们可能是一种奴役但是这是非奴役的杂交种子，普通种子。一旦我们振动它们 - 现在我们就可以提高我们生产更多，更多种类作物的能力。还有像橄榄这样的​​东西，他们说永远不会长大，但我已经长大了橄榄，我种了很多橄榄。然后他们说郁金香不会长大 - 我已经长大了。他们所说的各种事物永远不会在Poona中成长，而且它们都在变得非常好。我不知道他们怎么说它不能成长。

So all these things can be worked out. This is how a kind of a prosperity can come to our villages but we have to be pragmatic about it, we have to be serious about it and we have to help our poor people here. Another problem that always comes up with is, I think, some of the doctors are little upset thinking that if sahaja yoga comes up what will happen to their practice, so already, I’ve already told them that I’m not going to work for the rich people I don’t want to work for rich people. They can have the rich people to themselves – I want to work for poor people. In our country people don’t even have sufficient food to eat, they don’t – how will they go for treatment or anything but through sahaja yoga en masse we work it out, en masse. Even if there are thousand people in a group or even ten thousand people, most of them will be benefitted by Kundalini awakening so why not we try to help the poor who don’t have any money and as a saint, I think, every saint has only concern for the people who are suffering and who are poor, who are downtrodden. You see, the interest is not in the rich people at all is, interest is more in the people who need help and this is the help of, I should say, God Almighty because this is the power of God which is All-pervading, which is very subtle and which starts working through you. Once you are connected, just like you are connected – this instrument is connected to the mains, it starts working, in the same way you start working. And I would say that the doctors here should also, as other doctors have done it, should come round and see for themselves and we have some, as I told you, some Indian doctors working it out in Delhi also we can do it in Bombay – we can help the poor people uh.. and it will be such a great punya for us to help them because this country, you see, I mean, uh.. I don’t know, I’m bit too sensitive with, I see this poverty, I just can’t even enjoy My sahaja yoga because I feel when will they get all these things, they have to have it and if we are concerned about these things, we don’t run after superficial things.
所有这些都可以解决。这是一种繁荣可以来到我们的村庄，但我们必须务实，我们必须认真对待它，我们必须帮助我们这里的穷人。总是出现的另一个问题是，我认为，有些医生认为，如果霎哈嘉瑜伽出现在他们的练习中会发生什么，那么我已经告诉他们我不打算工作了。对富人来说，我不想为富人工作。他们可以让富人自己 - 我想为穷人工作。在我们国家，人们甚至没有足够的食物可以吃，他们没有 - 他们将如何去接受治疗或其他任何事情，除了通过霎哈嘉瑜伽，我们集体解决。即使一群人中有一千人甚至一万人，他们中的大多数人都会受到昆达利尼觉醒的好处，所以我们为什么不试着帮助那些没有钱的穷人和一个圣人，我想，每个圣徒只关心那些正在遭受痛苦，贫穷，受到压迫的人。你看，利益根本不在富人身上，对需要帮助的人更感兴趣，我应该说，这是全能的上帝的帮助，因为这是上帝的力量，无所不在，这是非常微妙的，并开始通过你工作。一旦连接，就像你连接一样 - 这台仪器连接到电源，它开始工作，就像你开始工作一样。而且我会说，这里的医生也应该像其他医生那样，自己来看看，我们有一些，正如我告诉你的，一些印度医生在德里工作，我们也可以在孟买做 - 我们可以帮助穷人呃......对我们来说帮助他们会是一个很大的麻烦，因为这个国家，你看，我的意思是，呃......我不知道，我有点太敏感了，我看到这种贫穷，我甚至不能享受我的霎哈嘉瑜伽，因为我觉得他们什么时候会得到所有这些东西，他们必须拥有它，如果我们关心这些事情，我们就不会在肤浅的事情之后。

Of course I agree that there have been false gurus – I agree that and I would like one person to talk to you about T.M. who was the head of the T.M. in Scotland and who was completely finished with it so he is here – I’ve cured many people from T.M., many people from T.M. We have one person here from T.M. and uh.. also from Rajneesh – they’ll tell you what harm they have done. It’s better to see because there is falsehood. There is truth and there is falsehood but truth can be understood very easily if you know what a saint should be. The saint has no interest in your money, in your position, in anything; His interest is only in awakening your Kundalini and taking you to God, that’s all – other interests are not there. So, you see, this is what one should judge any saint of. You don’t know how much these people have gone there and brought such bad name to us specially this Rajneesh has just said one word the whole lecture was going on, so many things were given to read, in Poona and they just uh.. caught hold of one word, they asked Me, “What about Rajneesh?” I just said, “She’s bilander,” I should have said much more.
当然我同意有假大师 - 我同意这一点，我希望有一个人和你谈谈T.M.谁是T.M.的负责人在苏格兰并完全完成了它所以他在这里 - 我已经治愈了许多来自T.M.的人，很多人来自T.M.我们这里有一个人来自T.M.而且......也来自Rajneesh--他们会告诉你他们做了什么伤害。最好看，因为有虚假。有真理，有谬误，但如果你知道圣徒应该是什么，就可以很容易地理解真理。圣徒对你的钱，你的位置，任何东西都不感兴趣;他的兴趣只在于唤醒你的昆达里尼并将你带到上帝，这就是全部 - 其他利益都不存在。所以，你看，这是人们应该判断任何圣人的。你不知道这些人去了多少并给我们带来了这么糟糕的名字，特别是这个Rajneesh刚刚说了整个讲座的一个字，所以很多东西都被读了，在Poona，他们只是呃..他们抓住了一个字，他们问我，“Rajneesh怎么样？”我只是说，“她是双性人，”我应该多说些什么。

I just said, “He’s bilander,” so they caught hold of that word and the whole thing started working on that only point that he’s – are we that level that we are mouthpiece of such a man who was thrown out of every country? If you want to hear about him, I’ll ask somebody to talk about him. Horrible, he was arrested and people hate him , in Russia they call him Rasputin. Such a man who’s all the time uh.. changing himself – he thinks he’s wise, I think, he’s the he’s the most dangerous man you could have. And now his ideas – he wants to insult Ganesha. Now I must tell you, without Ganapati we cannot cure many diseases because Ganesha is on the Muladhara – we cannot cure There are all these doctors they never knew Ganapati, they didn’t know what was Ganapati’s ‘Ga’ was but I told them this is Ganapati, you have to worship if you want to cure. Even cancer cannot be cured unless we take the help of Ganapati – It’s such a pure deity. But this gentleman started saying that , “Ganapati comes from the word ‘ganika’.” This is his own ideas – you see, such a perverted brain! It comes from the word ‘Gana’.
我只是说，“他是比兰德人”，所以他们抓住了这个词，整个事情开始着手，只有这一点 - 他们 - 我们是那个级别，我们是这样一个被赶出每个国家的人的喉舌吗？如果你想听听他的话，我会请别人谈谈他。可怕的是，他被捕，人们讨厌他，在俄罗斯，他们称他为Rasputin。这样一个一直都在改变自己的人 - 他认为他是明智的，我认为，他是你可能拥有的最危险的人。现在他的想法 - 他想侮辱Ganesha。现在我必须告诉你，没有Ganapati，我们无法治愈许多疾病，因为Ganesha在Muladhara  - 我们无法治愈所有这些医生他们从来不知道Ganapati，他们不知道什么是Ganapati的'Ga'，但我告诉他们这个是Ganapati，如果你想治愈，你必须崇拜。除非我们接受Ganapati的帮助，否则即使癌症也无法治愈 - 这是一个如此纯洁的神灵。但这位先生开始说，“Ganapati来自'ganika'这个词。”这是他自己的想法 - 你看，这样一个变态的大脑！它来自'Gana'这个词。

‘Gana’ means, in our medical terminology we can say antibodies – they are antibodies and this is called as smirksing. Americans have started a thing called smirks. So these are the antibodies and these Ganas are very important – without the antibodies we cannot fight any disease. Now how to excite them – you have to take the name of the Goddess for this. You see, all these things are, look so fantastic but, you see, you don’t know our, our heritage is fantastic, tremendous; We have no ideas to what we are! And if somebody tries to say something these are all half-baked scientists, half-baked people who don’t know much about it, just try to push you down and you have, must have heard they stoned us. Eighty foreigners were hurt by their stoning. They just put us into such a trap and they tortured our lives. I mean we, we are very peaceful people, uh.. we didn’t do anything. We were about, that time,1200 people, they were only 12 people – these Nirmoolan people.
'Gana'意味着，在我们的医学术语中，我们可以说抗体 - 它们是抗体，这被称为傻笑。美国人已经开始了一种叫做假笑的事情。所以这些是抗体，这些Ganas非常重要 - 没有抗体，我们无法抗击任何疾病。现在如何激发他们 - 你必须以女神的名义为此。你看，所有这些东西都看起来很棒，但是，你看，你不知道我们的，我们的遗产是伟大的，巨大的;我们对自己的想法一无所知！如果有人试图说些什么，这些都是半生不熟的科学家，半生不熟的人，他们对此并不了解，只是试图让你失望，而且你曾经听过他们用石头打死了我们。八十名外国人因石刑而受伤。他们只是让我们陷入这样的陷阱，他们折磨我们的生活。我的意思是我们，我们是非常和平的人，呃......我们什么也没做。我们当时约有1200人，他们只有12人 - 这些Nirmoolan人。

Anybody, anybody in that place would have really thrashed them but I said, “Nothing doing, you sit down,” and everybody got hurt but 18 were very badly hurt and some of them got uh.. fractures of the ribs even. but nobody stirred out, nobody said anything and the newspapers, I’m surprised, gave absolutely, absolutely the opposite. I just don’t know and one newspaper correspondent – now you just think of it – what a level we should be in India where we have such a great heritage! He brought a paper from this ‘Andhashraddha Nirmoolan’ – there’re hardly some 12 people some students something like that – he brought and gave it to Me. I was surprised how could a newspaper man give Me that! Now they try to play tricks and – now we have given everything so you better go through it and see for yourself how it was just like a mafia of police. and how they tortured us and what these foreigners are going to speak about us when they go there? They’re going to go to their embassies, no doubt; We have lots of journalists here, of a very high repute, it’s all going to be there that there’s a mafia going on in Maharashtra state – is a fact. The way they managed the whole thing is so surprising – I cannot imagine! We have done no wrong to anyone.
任何人，在那个地方的任何人都会真的捶打他们，但我说，“什么也没做，你坐下来”，每个人都受伤了但是18人受了很大的伤害，其中一些人得到了呃...肋骨骨折甚至。但是没有人激动，没有人说什么和报纸，我很惊讶，绝对，绝对相反。我只是不知道和一位报纸记者- 现在你只是想到了 - 我们应该在印度拥有如此伟大的传统！他从这个'Andhashraddha Nirmoolan'带来了一篇论文 - 几乎没有12个人，有些学生就是这样 - 他带来并送给我。我很惊讶报纸上的男人怎么能给我这个！现在他们试图玩弄技巧 - 现在我们已经给了所有东西，所以你最好通过它，亲眼看看它是如何像一个警察的黑手党。以及当他们去那里时，他们如何折磨我们以及这些外国人会谈论我们的事情？毫无疑问，他们会去他们的大使馆;我们这里有很多记者，声誉很高，马哈拉施特拉邦的黑手党都在那里 - 这是事实。他们管理整件事的方式是如此令人惊讶 - 我无法想象！我们对任何人都没有错。

They have no right to disturb us, not disturb but to hit us like this for nothing at all – what wrong have we done? I have been to so many countries, I must say. I have been to Turkey – we have a representative now; Turkey is a Islamic country but the police themselves gave us a number, a code number – they respected us. Anywhere I go I have never seen such things happening. Especially in Russia – we have representatives from Russia here sitting. They come all the way to know how I can help their children. What about people who are living here? Are they not going to use Me; I’m your own – am I not? They’re not going to use My powers or they’re not going to use My knowledge. When these people are using My knowledge in scientific field, in medical field, in other fields, even in agricultural field – are we just going to get after every person, superficially looking at every person?
他们没有权利打扰我们，没有打扰，而是根本不打扰我们 - 我们做错了什么？我必须说，我去过很多国家。我去过土耳其 - 我们现在有代表;土耳其是一个伊斯兰国家，但警察自己给了我们一个号码，一个代号 - 他们尊重我们。我去的任何地方我都没见过这样的事情。特别是在俄罗斯 - 我们有来自俄罗斯的代表。他们一路走来，知道如何帮助他们的孩子。那些住在这里的人怎么样？他们不打算用我;我是你自己的 - 我不是吗？他们不会使用我的力量，或者他们不会使用我的知识。当这些人在科学领域，医学领域，其他领域，甚至农业领域使用我的知识时 - 我们是否只是想要追求每个人，表面上看着每个人？

Of course I’m a simple woman, I do not have all these ostentations of a big sadhu baba or something like that, I’m a housewife and I’m a simple woman but that doesn’t mean that everything that I say is false; You have to – I, I would request media to now rise up. You see, at the time when it was 1942, I was a very young woman and we did fight the British that time the newspapers were of such a level, I mean, it’s a legend, I tell you, it’s a legend; They would never support anybody so destructive. There were hardly twelve people uh.. standing there and shouting and disturbing – every newspaper had their photographs. Yesterday at the, here at the Secretariat there were 1200 people standing silently, such silence, such serenity and such uh..dignity! You would never find such people together. My husband says, “They’re angels, You’ve found all the angels of the world.” And this is what everybody has to become. We have to transform this world – think of your children what are they going to get? We have to transform them, you have to give them sense of security and we have to give them a beautiful uh.. Kingdom of God, as I call it. So just to deny God is very arrogant, I think.
当然我是一个简单的女人，我没有所有这些大型的萨杜巴巴或类似的东西，我是一个家庭主妇，我是一个简单的女人，但这并不意味着我所说的一切都是假;你必须 - 我，我会要求媒体现在起来。你看，在1942年的时候，我是一个非常年轻的女人，当报纸达到这样的水平时，我们确实与英国人打过架，我的意思是，这是一个传奇，我告诉你，这是一个传奇;他们永远不会支持任何破坏性的人。几乎没有十二个人......站在那里大喊大叫 - 每家报都有自己的照片。昨天在秘书处，有1200人静静地站着，这样的沉默，如此平静，如此呃......尊严！你永远不会找到这样的人。我的丈夫说，“他们是天使，你找到了世界上所有的天使。”这就是每个人都必须成为的人。我们必须改变这个世界 - 想想你的孩子他们会得到什么？我们必须改变它们，你必须给它们安全感，我们必须给它们一个美丽的呃......上帝的王国，正如我所说的那样。我想，只是否认上帝是非常傲慢的。

Even the greatest scientist like Einstein would not deny that, Newton would not deny that. Who are these scientist here, what discoveries have they made? I mean, it’s such a small-mindedness, it’s a such a short-sightedness but what we have great, is our saints. They’re great saints and they have given so many things to us and thanks to them that I’m working because what they have done, what they have uh.. produced that I could reach all the villagers and all the people. Actually in the villages Indians live, I tell you. They’re so simple, so sweet and the way they receive Me, the way they get realization, the way they have improved their agriculture and everything is wonderful to see them. And My work is more in the villages because I must say, from My childhood I’ve been very much concerned about this great country because this is a yoga bhumi this is not an ordinary country, you don’t know. We have got the Adhyatma with us, we have got the greatest nourishing treasures with us. And all these Western countries, which are now suffering because of a one-sided development of science and all that – we have to nourish them, we have to. You see, these people are all – there are some people from very high officials from uh.. – what’s your company, from – IBM – IBM and we have people from other big companies here – haan, there’s another one from uh… annh uh… Olivetti – we have big people here.
即使像爱因斯坦这样最伟大的科学家也不会否认，牛顿不会否认这一点。这些科学家在这里是谁，他们发现了什么？我的意思是，这是一种小心眼，这是一种短视，但我们的伟大，是我们的圣徒。他们是伟大的圣徒，他们给了我们很多东西，感谢他们，我正在工作，因为他们做了什么，他们拥有什么......产生了我能够接触到所有村民和所有人。实际上在印第安人居住的村庄里，我告诉你。他们如此简单，如此甜蜜，他们接待我的方式，他们实现的方式，他们改善农业的方式以及看到他们的一切都很美妙。我的工作更多的是在乡村，因为我必须说，从我的童年开始，我一直非常关心这个伟大的国家，因为这是一个瑜伽布哈姆，这不是一个普通的国家，你不知道。我们和我们一起得到了Adhyatma，我们拥有了最丰富的滋养宝藏。所有这些西方国家，由于科学的片面发展而遭受的苦难，以及我们必须滋养它们的一切，我们必须这样做。你知道，这些人都是 - 有一些来自非常高级官员的人......  - 你的公司是什么，来自 -  IBM  -  IBM，我们有来自其他大公司的人 - 哈恩，还有一个来自呃......嗯呃...... Olivetti--我们这里有很多人。

Then we have one Dr. Khan, who is a very well known uh.. scientist from uh.. Calcutta and all these people are here, so many people are here whom we can point out. There are big business people here all of them are here and we have people who have been cured of blood cancer also – they were declared to be dead. In Poona these people spoke, nobody bothered. What they were – aa jao idhar aa jao. This is a architect; We have two architects who were declared to be dead within eight days – they were cured of sahaja yoga – they are here. See now [ALL CLAP]  So all these they spoke and there was, Mr. Malhotra also told about his angina but the Poona newspapers, I don’t know, they have become, just their level is the mouthpiece of this Rajneesh and the whole this all – if you see these people who talk of “There’s no God and all this is humbug and this and that,” are nothing but the ideas of Mr. Rajneesh. He’s penetrating them into our intellectuals and this people and that people and they are accepting it – is a very dangerous thing and it is coming even into the people who are supposed to be our leaders. It’s a very dangerous thing and he’s thrown out from every country. In Greece he was not even allowed to stay there. I mean, the less said the better. We have people who can talk about it.
然后我们有一个Khan博士，他是一位非常着名的呃..来自呃加尔各答的科学家和所有这些人都在这里，所以我们可以指出很多人在这里。这里有很多商人，他们都在这里，我们也有治愈过血癌的人 - 他们被宣布死了。在Poona，这些人说话，没有人打扰。他们是什么 -  aa jao idhar aa jao。这是一名建筑师;我们有两位建筑师在8天内被宣布死亡 - 他们已经治愈了霎哈嘉瑜伽 - 他们就在这里。现在看[全部工作]所以他们说了所有这些，并且有，Malhotra先生也讲述了他的心绞痛，但Poona报纸，我不知道，他们已成为，只是他们的水平是这个Rajneesh和整个喉舌这一切 - 如果你看到这些人谈论“没有上帝，这一切都是骗人的，而且这个和那个”，只不过是Rajneesh先生的想法。他将他们渗透到我们的知识分子和这个人以及他们接受它的人中 - 这是一件非常危险的事情，它甚至会传入应该成为我们领导者的人们身上。这是一件非常危险的事情，他被赶出了每个国家。在希腊，他甚至不被允许呆在那里。我的意思是，越少越好。我们有人可以谈论它。

Now, I would like you to know about TM, how dangerous it is but nobody has attacked here. Can you tell Peter Pearce? This is Mr. Peter Pearce. He was a diamond merchant and what Mr. TM did to him.
现在，我希望你了解TM，它有多危险，但没有人在这里进行攻击。你能告诉Peter Pearce吗？这是Peter Pearce先生。他是一名钻石商人，以及TM先生对他所做的事情。

Peter Pearce:  [1hr 24m]
彼得皮尔斯：[1小时24分钟]

Shri Mataji, ladies and gentleman, my name is Peter Pearce, for from 1970 I got initiated into TM. It cost money. 1972 I became a teacher of Transcendental Meditation where I met Maharishi and from that time onwards – somehow I became one of the leaders, international leaders of Transcendental meditation. – He just mesmerised them absolutely. Through, as Mother says, a mesmerisation process of learning mantras, of teaching mantras in simplistic forms of ‘inga’, ‘aina’, ‘aima’, ‘ainga’ we entrapped thousands of individuals In 1976 I went on another course costing something like twelve thousand pounds.
Shri Mataji，女士们，先生们，我的名字是Peter Pearce，从1970年开始，我开始进入TM。这需要花钱。 1972年，我成为了超验冥想的老师，在那里我遇到了玛哈西并从那时起 - 不知何故，我成为了先验冥想的领导者，国际领袖之一。 - 他绝对迷住了他们。正如母亲所说，通过学习咒语的催化过程，以简单形式的“inga”，“aina”，“aima”，“ainga”教授咒语我们陷入了成千上万的个人1976年，我又去了另一个类似于一万二千英镑。

I then purchased a place in Scotland for the movement which belonged to myself and my wife and over a period of three years they were indebted to me for the tune of a quarter of a million pounds of fees never paid, always promised and while I was teaching these people a number of them eventually landed up in mental institutes. One particularly known pop star’s wife, we with the Grace of Mother, eventually had to get after the mental institute where some teacher has said, “Your abstract uh.. experiences are beyond me, I think you better go and see a psychiatrist.” On seeing the psychiatrist, he did one thing and that was putting him, put her in a mental institute. Gradually, my wife and myself became non-communicative – unable to relate to the outside what we termed as the outside world – became more and more inward bound. My wife went into long periods – of, what could be called – A new type of epilepsy – Catatonia – [UNCLEAR] – for anything upto twelve hours she would sit in a corner – and scream and shout – horrible! Umm, in 1979, early in 1979 at the absolute wit’s end, I didn’t know which way to turn. I eventually decided that it was the end. I took the movement to court over the monies owed to us. Unfortunately uh.. the liquidates of the company – because when you close down a company in Scotland, you have to liquidate it they haven’t to choose the international, transcendental meditation’s international orders and I told them that at the time that this happened to be a conflict of interest and I said we’re not like that here, we’re different it doesn’t matter, we’re dealing with a different case. I said, “Fine,” anyways nothing to do with you, it’s in the hand of the liquidators, it’s in the hands of the courts.
然后我在苏格兰购买了一个属于我和我妻子的运动场所，在三年的时间里，他们欠我一笔25万英镑从未支付过的费用，总是承诺，而我是教导这些人后，其中一些人最终进入了精神研究所。一位特别知名的流行歌星的妻子，我们与母亲的恩典，最终不得不去了精神研究所，一些老师说，“你抽象的经历超出了我，我认为你最好去看精神科医生。”在看到精神科医生时，他做了一件事，那就是把他放进精神研究所。渐渐地，我和我的妻子变得非交往 - 无法与外界联系，我们称之为外部世界 - 变得越来越内向。我的妻子进入了很长一段时间 - 可能被称为 - 一种新型的癫痫症 -  Catatonia  -  [UNCLEAR]  - 对于任何长达12小时她会坐在角落里的东西 - 尖叫和喊叫 - 可怕！嗯，在1979年，早在1979年的绝对机智结束时，我不知道转向哪个方向。我最终决定结束。我把这个运动告上法庭，因为欠我们的钱。不幸的是，呃......公司的清盘人 - 因为当你在苏格兰关闭一家公司时，你必须清算它，他们不能选择国际的，先验的冥想的国际订单，我告诉他们，当时这发生在是一个利益冲突，我说我们在这里不是那样，我们是不同的无所谓，我们正在处理一个不同的情况。我说，“很好”，无论如何都与你无关，它掌握在清算人手中，掌握在法庭手中。

– Every money, you see, – We went to court – went to people with money. The High Court judge said, “Stop wasting Mr. Pears’ money and go outside and decide on how you’re going to pay it back.” Outside, they wondered whether they were going to jeopardise a 150 million dollar a year business, as transcendental meditation is or was in those days, infinitely more today or to pay me 320 thousand pounds, as was owed and they decided, for their own skins, to drop the case. They went back in again and said, “We have just dropped the case,” and that was the end of it and I lost 320 thousand pounds then. And not many people, especially myself could take, are not like that. Linda was unbelievably uh.. defected. We happened to meet a very well known Neuro-physiologist in London from St.Thomas’ and he was interested in doing experiments on us and with another smaller group of meditators who had done these obscure techniques of hopping around like a frog on the ground umm, he eventually has a look at the uh.. brain waves patterns and he said, “You know, these are those of an epileptic.” And here was the movement he was thinking that these brain waves patterns showed the correlation of integration and they purport to be scientists, you know have all the scientific data, showing how good it was and so on and so forth and here is a well-known Physiologist saying the complete opposite. And by the Grace of another friend of mine I happened to meet Shri Mataji and in a very short time we were cured. Shri Mataji had me stay with Her for six months and never once that I spent or have to spend never once did I – because we can all, all sahaja yogis can give realization to people.
 - 你知道，每一笔钱，我们都去了法庭 - 带着钱去找人。高等法院的法官说：“不要浪费Pears先生的钱，然后到外面去决定你将如何偿还。”在外面，他们想知道他们是否会危及每年1.5亿美元的业务，超然的冥想是或者在那些日子里，今天无限多，或者欠我32万英镑，因为他们欠了他们自己的皮肤，他们决定放弃这个案子。他们又回去说：“我们刚刚放弃了案子，”那就结束了，我当时损失了32万英镑。并不是很多人，特别是我自己可以采取的，不是那样的。琳达难以置信地......叛逃了。我们偶然遇到了来自St.Thomas的伦敦一位非常着名的神经生理学家，他有兴趣对我们进行实验，还有另外一小群冥想者，他们做了这些晦涩难懂的技术，像地上的青蛙一样跳来跳去。他最终看了一眼呃脑波模式，他说，“你知道，这些都是癫痫病人。”这就是他认为这些脑波模式表明整合与他们相关的运动。声称是科学家，你知道有所有科学数据，显示它有多好等等等等，这里有一位着名的生理学家说完全相反。在我的另一位朋友的格蕾丝身上，我碰巧遇到了Shri Mataji，并在很短的时间内治愈了。 Shri Mataji让我和她待了六个月，从来没有一次我花费或不得不花费我曾经 - 因为我们都可以，所有霎哈嘉瑜伽士都可以让人意识到。

Never once did we have to pay one penny. [CLAPPING] And you know a quarter of a million in 1979 was a lot of money and we couldn’t believe and none of the others, who we managed to drag out of Transcendental meditation, could believe, here we had something which was tangible, something we could actually feel – not only could we feel ourselves but we could feel those around us, we could feel their chakras. Transcendental meditation is nothing. You can’t feel a thing – all you can feel is your gradual inward, recluse type attitude and with the blessings of Mother and with you people writing the facts in your newspapers maybe we can rescue many, many more people in India. Thank You, Mother! [CLAPPING] Uh.. I must say that uh.. so many are really lost, I tell you, in a very bad shape, I mean, I used to really weep seeing that they have become absolutely like mental cases and in a very bad shape. Also Rajnish’s things are just the same. Uh… we have had experiences of Rajnish’s people coming to My program and Yogi Mahajan was quite sort of sympathetic about them. He told Me, “There are three Rajnish’s people who are very much uh.. in trouble Mother, should I bring them to the program?”
我们从来没有一次付过一分钱。 [CLAPPING]你知道1979年的25万美元是很多钱，我们无法相信，我们设法拖出超验冥想的其他人都不会相信，在这里我们有一些有形的东西我们实际上可以感受到的东西 - 我们不仅可以感受到自己，而且能够感受到我们周围的人，我们能够感受到他们的脉轮。先验冥想无关紧要。你无法感受到一件事 - 所有你能感受到的是你渐渐的内心，隐士式的态度，以及母亲的祝福，以及你在报纸上写下事实的人们，也许我们可以在印度拯救更多的人。谢谢妈妈！ [CLAPPING]呃..我必须说呃..真的迷路了很多人，我告诉你，我的意思很糟糕，我曾经真的哭过，看到他们已经变得非常像精神病例了糟糕的形状。 Rajnish的事情也是一样的。呃......我们有过Rajnish的人来到我的节目的经历，而Yogi Mahajan对他们非常同情。他告诉我，“有三个Rajnish的人非常呃......遇到麻烦妈妈，我应该带他们参加这个节目吗？”

I said, “Please don’t. You can bring them home but not there. It’ll be dangerous.” And he just brought them because they forced him and they brought them. And they were about 100 ft away from Me. As soon as they saw Me they just fell like, fell down and became just like stones, just like stones. Nobody could lift them they were so heavy. I mean, they had to really like move the stones outside and it was terrible. Then some people went to, there’s an ashram he has got in Dharamshala – they said, “We want to have a kind of a, sort of a cure for our uh.. troubles and all.” He said, “No, no you better go to Shri Mataji.
我说，“请不要。你可以把它们带回家而不是那里。这将是危险的。“他带来了他们，因为他们强迫他们，他们带来了他们。他们离我约100英尺。他们一见到我，他们就像摔倒一样，倒在地上，变得像石头一样，就像石头一样。没人能抬起它们，它们太沉重了。我的意思是，他们不得不真的喜欢把石头移到外面，这太可怕了。然后有些人去了，他在达兰萨拉有一个灵舍 - 他们说，“我们希望有一种治疗我们的麻烦......麻烦和所有。”他说，“不，不，你最好去Shri Mataji。

I will not allow you to come to this place.” So they said, “Why not?” So they – he said, “Alright, you come along,” and he said, “You put your hands towards Shri Mataji.” They started shaking, the whole body started shaking – then I left. But then of course, I mean, you know as it is I’m too compassionate for all this, I feel so terrible. We had – have you got Robert here also [UNCLEAR] – did he come? Haan We have two persons from where – this is Robert, who suffered a lot and the sahaja yogis objected he’s coming to our ashram so I stayed in the ashram Myself, kept him there, looked after him and he got completely cured of such bad [UNCLEAR]. He would have been finished by now in the lunatic asylum or something. Not only that but now you got what degree? – Now [INAUDIBLE] – What degree you have got?
我不会允许你来到这个地方。“所以他们说，”为什么不呢？“所以他们 - 他说，”好吧，你过来了，“他说，”你把手放在Shri Mataji身上。“他们开始颤抖，整个身体开始颤抖 - 然后我离开了。但当然，我的意思是，你知道因为我对这一切过于富有同情心，所以我感觉非常可怕。我们 - 你有罗伯特在这里[UNCLEAR]  - 他来了吗？哈恩我们有两个人从哪里来 - 这是罗伯特，他遭受了很多苦难，僧伽里瑜伽士反对他来到我们的灵舍，所以我留在了我自己，让他留在那里，照顾他，他完全治愈了这么糟糕[不清楚]。他现在已经完成了疯人院的庇护或其他事情。不仅如此，但现在你获得了什么学位？ - 现在[听不清]  - 你有多大程度？

[UNCLEAR] It is by the Grace of Shri Mataji that I am standing here, as She told and also that I have achieved last year the degree of Art History, that means not a doctor yet – maybe once it will happen by Mother’s Grace but before doctor I don’t know how this is called in English doctor [UNCLEAR]. I’ve been doing this study [UNCLEAR] in Belgium from 1982 on. In 1981 I received my realization from Her. I met Shri Mataji luckily in Paris because I was hopelessly seeking there the Truth and actually I was be-fooled by this Rajnish because with his books on the markets, which he writes for making money of course and also he uh.. abuses the [UNCLEAR – AFFECTED?] seekers – ones who have overcome their problems. He doesn’t give the solution by effect, like Shri Mataji does, the effect of realization but he first writes these books so that these get sold, then little by little he gives programs or therapies for which has to be paid a lot like, one of the therapies is they call re-birthing and for this you have to pay 30$ per hour and this is a kind of injection of oxygen which you put in your lungs, you breathe during an hour in an unnatural way. This gives a very funny affect your muscles uh.. and it gives a kind of a purification, maybe, because of the oxygen which burns away problems but it not a lasting curing – the problems come back which means you have to come back to this center to get this therapy again so it gives you an enslavement to this therapy and you pay everytime these 30$. So, I was a student, I had very little money but I lost even what I had uh.. with these techniques – sorry. Other things, horrible things which, which this Rajnish teaches is the called the Kundalini dance. Mother please forgive me but this is a terrible dance and they jump and shout like dogs and fall on their heels – you have to jump.
[UNCLEAR]正是由Shri Mataji的Grace，我站在这里，正如她所说，并且我去年取得了艺术史的程度，这意味着还不是医生 - 也许一旦它将由母亲的恩典发生但是在医生面前我不知道英国医生[UNCLEAR]是怎么称呼它的。我从1982年开始在比利时进行这项研究[UNCLEAR]。 1981年，我从她那里得到了我的认识。我很幸运地在巴黎遇见了Shri Mataji，因为我无可救药地在那里寻求真相，实际上我被这个Rajnish所迷惑，因为他在市场上的书籍，当然他为赚钱而写作，而且他呃...滥用[ UNCLEAR  - 受影响的？]寻求者 - 那些克服了他们的问题的人。他没有像Shri Mataji那样提供解决方案，实现的效果，但是他首先写这些书以便这些书被卖掉，然后他一点一点地给出了必须付出很多钱的程序或疗法，其中一种治疗方法就是重新分娩，为此你必须每小时支付30美元这是一种注入氧气的药物，你放入肺部，一小时内以不自然的方式呼吸。这给你的肌肉带来了非常有趣的影响呃...它可以提供一种净化，也许，因为氧气可以消除问题而不是持久的治疗 - 问题又回来了，这意味着你必须回到这里中心再次接受这种疗法，因此它会让你对这种疗法产生奴役，并且你每次付30美元就可以支付。所以，我是一名学生，我的钱很少，但我甚至因为这些技术而失去了... ...抱歉。其他东西，这些可怕的东西，这个Rajnish教导的是被称为昆达利尼的舞蹈。妈妈，请原谅我，但这是一场可怕的舞蹈，他们像狗一样跳起来，fall heels着脚 - 你必须跳。

And can you imagine, if you look out on the chart which you have on your papers, you see that the heel is the Muladhara chakra so he shocks the whole body through this method and he makes a big [UNCLEAR] out of it so that you don’t feel the subtleties any more of the real uh… later on of the real Kundalini. Actually years later you still can suffer from these shocks you have experienced in your body, like headaches – or tensions – Very much – in the chakras and and there are actually, Shri Mataji told that there are very few persons who overcame this. – It’s true. – this – Rahnish’s people I could not cure many. You see, they’re so absolutely doomed doomed people, you cannot and he himself is suffering now so much and they say he’s so wise this, that – I just don’t know what sort of a wisdom is this, what sort of. He reads books, you see, he has lots of books – those who have not uh.. people who are not well read can easily see these are, this is he has taken from this book, that book but he just publishes it that’s how he has published books and he has made money but the worst part is that the way he has made these people suffer, the way he has made them suffer but not one, so many of them and you’ll be surprised, his name is so bad everywhere, I mean, now there’s one thing we have got for him which you could not got say anywhere, the special one I’ve arranged in this private place, for you to see a film which was done by an Englishman who came here and he made a hole and took all these photographs of his mass sex act – of course, I don’t want to see it because once I saw, I vomited for eight days so the what he has done and how he has ruined people for going to this he used to charge five hundred rupees, for going to this nonsensical things. Even those who have not gone to this, have been too much affected – this is what he started but then the AIDS came in so the AIDS came in and his disciples started getting AIDS so he changed over. He’s done all kinds of tricks, all kinds of things and all the manipulations and everything and that’s what is now coming into our uh.. people who are our leaders – it’s coming into them, they’re, they’re taking from them. He’s teaching them all these ways and methods of these things. and I don’t know, there was a case I heard about that there was a case [UNCLEAR] that he has taken away this land from somebody and it land doesn’t belong to him but the whole case was suppressed then, completely suppressed – I just don’t understand.
而且你能想象，如果你看看你的报纸上的图表，你会看到后跟是Muladhara脉轮，所以他通过这种方法震动了整个身体，并且他做了一个大的[UNCLEAR]，以便在真正的昆达利尼之后，你不再感受到真正的微妙之处......实际上多年以后，你仍然可以忍受你在体内经历的这些冲击，如头痛 - 或紧张 - 很多 - 在脉轮中，实际上，Shri Mataji告诉说，很少有人克服了这一点。 - 这是真的。 - 这个 -  Rahnish的人我无法治愈很多。你看，他们是如此绝对注定要注定失败的人，你不能和他自己现在这么痛苦，他们说他这么聪明，我 - 我只是不知道这是什么样的智慧，是什么样的。他看书，你看，他有很多书 - 那些没有读过的人......那些阅读不好的人可以很容易地看到这些，这是他从这本书中拿出来的那本书，但他只是发表了它就是这样的他已经出版了书籍并且赚了钱，但最糟糕的部分是他让这些人受苦的方式，他让他们受苦但不是一个人的方式，他们这么多人你会感到惊讶，他的名字是如此到处都是坏的，我的意思是，现在有一件事我们得到了你在任何地方都找不到的，这是我在这个私人场所安排的特别的一件事，你看一部电影是由一位来自这里的英国人完成的。并且他拍了一张洞并拍下了他的群众性行为的所有这些照片 - 当然，我不想看到它，因为一旦我看到，我呕吐了八天所以他做了什么以及他如何毁了人为了达到这个荒谬的事情，他常常收取500卢比。即使那些没有参与其中的人也受到了太大的影响 - 这就是他的开始，但随后艾滋病进来，所以艾滋病进来了，他的门徒开始接受艾滋病，所以他改变了。他做了各种各样的伎俩，各种各样的事情以及所有的操纵和一切，这就是我们现在正在进入我们的领域......作为我们领导者的人 - 它正在进入他们，他们是，他们正在从他们那里获取。他正在教他们所有这些方法和方法。而且我不知道，有一个案例我听说有一个案例[UNCLEAR]他从某人手中夺走了这片土地，而且土地不属于他，但整个案件被镇压了，完全被压制了 - 我只是不明白。

It’s like a, you just don’t understand how such things can happen? Because I have lived now in U.K. and any other countries of the, I mean, such horrible things do not happen like this – anybody cannot get on with every sort of a nonsense that’s why he’s here, I think, otherwise he cannot exist in any other country. Illegal things, so many illegal things they’re done. In our case, especially I would say, they were first shouting, alright. Then they said all kinds of things against Me. Now to hear something against your Mother, is very difficult. If you abuse somebody’s Mother – but I told them not to get irritated, not to get angry. Then they disturbed us – is illegal to disturb any meeting. You can shout when there’s no meeting but when I started the police was just standing there, doing nothing. Then we went to, they wrote to Me another letter saying that, “Alright, we, we would like You to tell us about sahaja yoga and we’ll try to uh.. help You and we’ll of course add to Your success and to Your uh… [UNCLEAR] annh.. fame, to Your fame.
就像一个，你只是不明白这样的事情会发生什么？因为我现在住在英国和其他任何国家，我的意思是，这样可怕的事情不会发生这样的事情 - 任何人都无法接受各种各样的废话，这就是为什么他在这里，我想，否则他就不会存在于任何其他国家。非法的事情，他们做了很多非法的事情。在我们的案例中，特别是我会说，他们是第一次大喊大叫，好吧。然后他们说了各种反对我的事。现在听到针对你母亲的事情，非常困难。如果你虐待某人的母亲 - 但我告诉他们不要生气，不要生气。然后他们打扰了我们 - 打扰任何会议是非法的。当没有开会时你可以喊叫，但是当我开始警察只是站在那里，什么也不做。然后我们去了，他们给我写了另一封信，说：“好吧，我们，我们希望你告诉我们关于霎哈嘉瑜伽的事情，我们会试着呃......帮助你，我们当然会增加你的成功对你的呃... [UNCLEAR] annh ..成名，对你的名声。

They wrote a letter to Me signed, you know and we took it for granted. When we went to Satara they had called the, they had called the police and there were people shouting again all kinds of dirty things against Me, all kinds of – it was unbearable. You see, Indians and the foreigners when they heard the meaning, they all were boiling with temper. I said, “Alright, doesn’t matter you can later on have a kind of a vidarshan or something, you can take out your temper there but just now you bear it.” Now after that we had to tell the police that two and a half hours we could not start our meeting that you ask them to stop now. So otherwise it’s illegal then the police stopped but in this place Sangapur it was so horrible that no police came. We had told them that you have to come here – no police came, nobody came and they left us in the lurch and they put us into a, a kind of a compound, behind was a bus depot. And these people came from behind and took some ladders from the timber mart and put them – it’s really a mafia, I tell you and started throwing stones indiscriminately. Two boys were hit by – [UNCLEAR] I didn’t see them hitting these two persons – was one Dr. Dabolkar and other fellow Mr. Pangi. They hit him and they gave, sort of, signals to them The other people started shouting from there in the dark so these boys went that side to see who is shouting.
他们写了一封信给我签了，你知道，我们认为这是理所当然的。当我们去萨塔拉他们打电话给他们时，他们打电话给警察，有人又喊着各种各样的脏东西，各种各样 - 这是无法忍受的。你看，印度人和外国人听到这个意思后，他们都脾气暴躁。我说，“好吧，没关系，你以后可以有一种vidarshan或其他什么东西，你可以在那里发脾气，但现在你忍受了。”之后我们不得不告诉警察，两个和半个小时我们无法开始你要求他们现在停止的会议。所以否则它是非法的然后警察停止了，但在这个地方Sangapur它是如此可怕，没有警察来。我们告诉他们你必须来到这里 - 没有警察来，没有人来，他们让我们陷入困境，他们把我们变成了一个大院，后面是一个公共汽车站。这些人从后面走过来，从木材市场拿走了一些梯子并放了它们 - 它真的是一个黑手党，我告诉你并开始不分青红皂白地扔石头。两个男孩被击中 -  [UNCLEAR]我没有看到他们击中这两个人 - 是Dabolkar博士和其他Pangi先生。他们打了他，他们给了他们一些信号。其他人在黑暗中开始从那里喊叫，所以这些男孩走到那边去看谁在喊。

They hit them so hard. Somebody got hurt here – all of them are foreigners who got very badly hurt, eighteen of them. – Where it happened? – Annh? Angapur. Now you know where is Angapur – Angapur? Angapur. You see, it is, it is from Satapur, Satara far away – it’s a very remote place. Angapur why I go because Shri Ramadasa formed the statue of Shri Rama and Sita and also of Anglai devi so it’s a very, very powerful place so I went there and we were having – I’ve been there going for six years and the Ramasthas, poor things, were involved and the newspaper, I gave absolutely a wrong information. When these people went to the police station, you’ll be surprised, the Sakar people rang up at 10:30 in the night to find out if – in Marathi was [MARATHI] Then he told the right thing, “No it was much worse, they were hit and they put the stones and all that.”
他们如此努力地击中他们。有人在这里受伤了 - 他们都是非常受伤的外国人，其中有十八人受伤。 - 它发生在哪里？ - 安？ Angapur。现在你知道Angapur在哪里 -  Angapur？ Angapur。你看，它来自萨塔普尔，萨塔拉很远 - 这是一个非常偏僻的地方。 Angapur我为什么去，因为Shri Ramadasa形成了Shri Rama和Sita以及Anglai devi的雕像所以它是一个非常非常强大的地方所以我去了那里我们曾经 - 我去过那里已经六年和Ramasthas，可怜的事情，参与和报纸，我绝对提供了错误的信息。当这些人去警察局时，你会感到惊讶，萨卡人在晚上10:30打电话来查明 - 在马拉地语中是否[马蒂西]然后他告诉了正确的事，“不是很多更糟糕的是，他们被打了，他们把石头和所有这些都放了。“

But in paper just the opposite – I just don’t know how can they do it? And they went to the police later on to put their uh..case and police said, “Have you got any injuries?” They said, “No, no not much but you see, this they beat us.” All wrong, absolutely wrong but you’ll be surprised there was a Doordarshan man with them who came and he jumped on the stage. Can you imagine, this is a mafia stuff. I was about to speak, he jumps on the stage and he says, “Mataji, I must have your interview.” I said, “But this not the time. You were to come at 6 0’clock why have you come now, I have to speak now.” “No, no you must give.” Imagine a Doordarshan man is a government servant, why should he and why should Doordarshan be there, I can’t understand ?
但事实恰恰相反 - 我只是不知道他们怎么做呢？他们后来去警察把他们呃......箱子和警察说：“你受伤了吗？”他们说，“不，不，不多，但你看，他们打败了我们。”一切都错了，绝对是错了但你会感到惊讶的是，有一个Doordarshan男人和他们一起来，他跳上了舞台。你能想象，这是一个黑手党的东西。我准备说话，他跳上舞台，他说，“Mataji，我必须接受你的采访。”我说，“但这不是时候。你要在6点钟来，为什么你现在来，我现在必须说话。“”不，不，你必须给。“想象一个Doordarshan男人是政府的仆人，为什么他和Doordarshan为什么要在那里，我无法理解？

No policeman only Doordarshan man. And this vaartahaar, the correspondent from there, he was there but he ran away and this one Mr. Pange, who was a Jila something, Sahakari Bank something, so he had thrown the stones so they brought him to the stage I said, “I agree, he has thrown the stones,” and here it hurt a boy and it gave him a fracture, he started bleeding, we had to send him to the hospital – still it is to be operated on and something has to be done. Now, when they brought him, you see, I was very quiet and I said, “Now have peace, we have to show we are peaceful people. Peace itself has power, now don’t shout, don’t beat anyone, don’t do anything.” They brought him there and I said, “Now you take him to the police station. I will not allow you to touch him even on anything, you just take him.” So what they said, “They tied it up us and all,” – how can we lie so much in this country. I mean, lies of the worst type, I can tell you. How can we do it? I understand newspaper has to give both the sides but this is just lie and this Sakaar paper has been telling always lies against Me.
没有警察只有Doordarshan男子。而这位vaartahaar，那里的通讯员，他在那里，但他逃跑了，这是一个Pange先生，他是Jila的东西，Sahakari Bank的东西，所以他扔了石头，所以他们带他到舞台我说，“我同意，他扔了石头，“在这里它伤害了一个男孩，它给了他一个骨折，他开始出血，我们不得不把他送到医院 - 仍然是要进行手术，必须采取一些措施。现在，当他们带他来的时候，你看，我很安静，我说，“现在有了平安，我们必须表明我们是和平的人民。和平本身就有力量，现在不要喊，不要打败任何人，什么都不做。“他们把他带到那里，我说，”现在你把他带到警察局。即使在任何事情上我也不会让你碰到他，你只要接受他。“所以他们说，”他们把我们和所有人捆绑起来，“ - 我们怎么能在这个国家撒谎。我的意思是，最糟糕的谎言，我可以告诉你。我们怎么做？我知道报纸必须给双方提供，但这只是谎言而且这篇Sakaar论文总是在说谎，反对我。

This I built a house, I didn’t know that they had intention of having a buildings there – they wanted to have buildings for the builders you see, as if they’ve become agents of builders. So these people got after Me, I didn’t know that this land belonged to them or anything I just built My own farmhouse because I’m interested in farming so they got after Me and they got a proper nine people’s arrangement made from Collector, Commissioner and even the judge who had, District judge who had retired so they put an ad hoc judge there and passed an ex-party demolition of My house My husband’s hard earned money – ex-party and luckily I came here to, to Bombay next day and the judge said, “How can it be?” You were so status quo and gave Me a state order and he squashed the whole thing. He said, “You’re so illegal. She has taken permissions from Gram Panchayat, from everyone, She has got everything, map and everything intact. And My husband has got doctorate from India and also from England in law and I showed him. And he, they said, “How could you do these things?” And this is what Sakaar paper did was to write. Then of course our sahaja yogis could not bear it so they wrote to the Press that the way they wrote all nonsensical things about, you see, alleging Me that I’m doing all illegal things so the Press Council was very nice and they sent Me a message that, “We have decided that You can ask these people to give You a public apology and whatever You write they have to publish.” But you know I’m very forgiving, I said , “Forget it now what’s there to apologise – whatever is done, is done,” but they’re again back in the seat.
我建了一所房子，我不知道他们打算在那里建一座建筑物 - 他们想为你看到的建筑商建造建筑物，仿佛他们已成为建筑商的代理人。所以这些人跟在我后面，我不知道这片土地属于他们或者我刚刚建造了我自己的农舍，因为我对农业很感兴趣，所以他们跟着我，他们得到了一个由收藏家制作的适当九人的安排，专员，甚至是那位已经退休的区法官的法官，所以他们在那里安排了一名临时法官并通过了前党拆除我的房子我丈夫辛苦赚来的钱 - 前党，幸运的是我来到孟买，接着是孟买那一天，法官说，“它怎么可能？”你是如此现状，给了我一个州令，他把整个事情都压扁了。他说，“你是非法的。她从Gram Panchayat获得了所有人的许可，她拥有一切，地图和一切都完好无损。我的丈夫从印度和英国获得了博士学位，并向我展示了他。而他，他们说，“你怎么能做这些事？”这就是萨卡纸所写的。当然，我们的霎哈嘉瑜伽士无法忍受，所以他们写信给媒体说他们写了所有荒谬的事情的方式，你看，告诉我我做了所有非法的事情所以新闻委员会非常好，他们送我一条消息说：“我们已经决定你可以要求这些人向你公开道歉以及你写的他们必须发表的任何内容。”但是你知道我很宽容，我说，“现在算了，有什么可以道歉的。 - 无论做什么，都完成了，“但他们又回到了座位上。

I don’t know what’s wrong with this Prataprao Pawar also, why is he, why is he – I mean, just as if, you see, they have become like uh… Lords of the whole world, they survey – they can do what they like and beating these foreigners – they are now going to go to their embassies and going to go to the whole world – the way they have behaved. It is nowhere done like this. and they’re supporting this Andhashradha Nirmoolan Samiti. I’ve got the name of Prataprao Pawar on nthe committee there. I mean, this is even worse than mafia. I’ve been to Sicily, I’ve been to all places – I’ve never seen such a thing happening. And the police, you know, the police was so cunning at 9 0’clock they came and this policeman says that, “Now you uh.. finish your meeting.” I said, “Meeting is already finished but I can’t take them out because they are there and they will just trouble these people so we will first of all see that these people go away.” He said, “Alright, they have gone.” I couldn’t take him because I knew they were all very mischievous people so I asked one gentleman Dayal to go and see for himself.
我不知道这个Prataprao Pawar也有什么问题，为什么他，他为什么 - 我的意思是，就像，你看，他们已经变得像呃......整个世界的领主，他们调查 - 他们可以做什么他们喜欢并殴打这些外国人 - 他们现在要去他们的大使馆，去他们的行为方式去全世界。没有这样做。他们支持这个Andhashradha Nirmoolan Samiti。我在那里的委员会上得到了Prataprao Pawar的名字。我的意思是，这比黑手党还要糟糕。我去过西西里岛，我去过各地 - 我从来没有见过这样的事情。警察，你知道，警察在他们9点钟时非常狡猾地来了，这名警察说，“现在你呃......完成你的会议。”我说，“会议已经结束，但我不能接受他们出去是因为他们在那里，他们只会麻烦这些人，所以我们首先会看到这些人走了。“他说，”好吧，他们已经走了。“我不能接受他，因为我知道他们都是非常恶作剧的人所以我请一位绅士Dayal亲自去看看。

He came back, he was hit here, he had a big lump on his, they had beaten him up here and his nose was bleeding. I said, “What is this, how can I send this foreigners by that road where people are beaten up?” So, he said, “No, no they are gone.” I said, “Nothing doing, you remove them other wise I will never allow these people to go.” Then I sent some other people to see. Till 12:30 we were there, in the night – imagine – just sitting there -we couldn’t move. Then they told that have put already the stones on the road and they’re going to stop the buses and they’re going to hit these people. Same with this Vigyan Prabodhini, supposed to be nonsensical thing like that. You see, this Icchal Karanji place we went to long time back about ’80 – ’81 and they were alright when I was talking and suddenly when these foreigners were getting into the bus they took hockey sticks and big, big sticks started hitting them. They all got so badly hurt but that time, I must say, Shankara Chauhan was there and I went and talked to Sidhu and Sidhu immediately ordered an enquiry and he really took them to task – but that’s a different thing.
他回来了，他被击中了，他身上有一个大块，他们在这里击败了他，他的鼻子在流血。我说，“这是什么，我怎么能把这个外国人送到人们遭到殴打的那条路？”所以，他说，“不，不，他们已经走了。”我说，“没什么可做的，你把他们除掉了我永远不会允许这些人去。“然后我派了其他人去看。直到12:30，我们在那里，在夜晚 - 想象 - 只是坐在那里 - 我们无法移动。然后他们告诉我们已经将石头放在路上了，他们要停止公共汽车，他们会打击这些人。与这个Vigyan Prabodhini相同，应该是那样荒谬的事情。你知道，这个Icchal Karanji地方我们很长一段时间回到了'80  -  '81，当我说话的时候他们没问题，突然当这些外国人进入公共汽车时，他们拿起了曲棍球棒，大棒开始击中它们。他们都受了如此严重的伤害，但是那个时候，我必须说，Shankara Chauhan在那里，我去和Sidhu谈话，Sidhu立即下令进行调查，他真的带他们去完成任务 - 但这是另一回事。

This I can’t understand what’s happening? If this kind of a, I mean, we have security no body can move. In a place like Gangapur, to reach there itself is difficult and this Doordarshan fellow was there. and he jumped on the stage. Why, what right has he got to ask Me, just tell Me? I mean, you may be newspaper people, alright, but everybody has their own limitations, isn’t it? You cannot jump on the stage and ask Me questions at that time. And the Vaartahaar himself gave Me the papers from these people. I mean, just I can’t imagine! Isn’t it a shameful thing that the foreigners were here – they are saintly people and very badly hurt, very badly hurt.. – Tell us something about sahaja yoga – Annh?
这我无法理解发生了什么？如果这种，我的意思是，我们有安全没有身体可以移动。在像Gangapur这样的地方，到达那里本身很困难，这个Doordarshan的家伙就在那里。他跳上了舞台。为什么，他有什么权利问我，告诉我？我的意思是，你可能是报纸的人，好吧，但每个人都有自己的局限，不是吗？那时你不能跳上舞台问我问题。 Vaartahaar自己给了我这些人的文件。我的意思是，我无法想象！外国人在这里不是一件可耻的事吗 - 他们是圣人，非常伤害，非常伤害......  - 告诉我们一些关于霎哈嘉瑜伽的事 - 安？

– when it started, how it started? – Alright. Sahaja yoga, as he has told you, is, is this is not a new thing. Sahaja yoga has been used since long in this country – it’s our heritage, has been used. Sahaja, ‘Sa’ is with, ‘Ja’ is born with you and it is something uh.. which has been already used by our saints but very few people got realization, very few people got realization and then it so happened that when, I mean, when I was born I knew I had to do this work of Collective uh.. Realization – I had to work it out and My father himself was a very saintly person and a very sacrificing person; My mother was also and they wanted Me to find out the ways and method how I would achieve a saamoohik chetna uh… for the people because that is – you see, they were also very concerned about the people. They sacrificed all their life for Congress and this and, I mean, I also, as they told you, I, I’ve also suffered a lot. They gave Me electric shocks and all that – doesn’t matter – but after that all that when Gandhiji was there also Gandhiji knew all about it and if Gandhiji had lived he would have supported Me – he would definitely have supported Me – mean, he was a realized soul, Shastriji was also a realized soul. He used to respect Me so much that even when he was a Prime Minister if I came to know, he came to know I was there, he would invite Me. My husband was his secretary, alright but to respect Me so much, he would even come to the, come to the uh… My car and open the door for Me and saw that – I mean it’s so humble towards Me because he knew that I had this power in Me. He was after Me that I should take to Congress and this and that but I was just waiting to find out a way by which I could break this seventh chakra and all and I was studying in My own subtle ways the problems of human-beings why they don’t get realization.
 - 什么时候开始，它是如何开始的？ - 好的。正如他告诉你的那样，霎哈嘉瑜伽是，这不是一件新鲜事。霎哈嘉瑜伽在这个国家已经使用了很长时间 - 这是我们的传统，已被使用。 Sahaja，'Sa'和你在一起，'Ja'和你一起出生，这是我们圣徒已经使用过的东西......但是很少有人意识到，很少有人意识到这一点然后就发生了，我的意思是，当我出生时，我知道我必须做集体的工作呃......实现 - 我必须解决这个问题，而我父亲本身就是一个非常圣洁的人和一个非常牺牲的人;我的母亲也是，他们希望我找到方法和方法，我将如何实现一个saamoohik chetna呃......对于人民来说，因为那是 - 你看，他们也非常关心人民。他们牺牲了国会和国会的一生，我的意思是，我也像他们告诉你的那样，我也遭受了很多苦难。他们给了我电击以及所有这些 - 无关紧要 - 但在此之后Gandhiji在那里的所有事情也让Gandhiji知道了所有这一切，如果Gandhiji生活了他会支持我 - 他肯定会支持我 - 意思，他Shastriji是一个成熟的灵魂，也是一个成熟的灵魂。他曾经非常尊重我，即使他是一名总理，如果我知道，他就会知道我在那里，他会邀请我。我的丈夫是他的秘书，好吧，但是为了尊重我，他甚至会来到，来到呃......我的车为我打开门，看到了 - 我的意思是它对我如此谦虚，因为他知道我我有这种力量。他跟我说我应该带国会这个和那个，但我只是在等着找到一种方法，我可以打破这第七个脉轮和所有我正在以自己的微妙方式研究人类的问题为什么他们没有意识到。

There are problems in these chakras these permutations and combinations and in that study and all that, I found, that I’m just about to finish it off and I went to many saints, real saints also, to artificial saints and to people like this. I went to even the Muktanand I went to, I went to Rajnish and to all those people to find out but Rajnish himself is something surprising that first time I met him in Jabalpur because he knew My niece and he said that, “Your aunt has come, I would like to meet Her,” because My husband was a big man those days so, maybe, he wanted to meet Me or whatever it is but as soon as he saw Me, he stretched himself before Me – My brother was also with Me and said, “You are Adishakti, You are Adishakti,” so I put up a show I said, “What is You Adishakti, I don’t know – what is this, what are you talking about?” He said, “You don’t know anything about this?” I said, “No, no I don’t know anything.” So he wanted to get something done, you see, from Shastriji. I said, “Nothing doing, I’m sorry, I’m no good for all these things. If you want, you can take an appointment with Shastriji.” Shastriji never gave an appointment, “Mera dimaag kharaab hai?” he used to say like that. So it happened.
这些chakras中存在这些排列和组合的问题，在那项研究中，我发现，所有这一切，我即将完成它，我也去了许多圣人，真正的圣徒，人工圣徒和这样的人。我去了Muktanand我去了，我去了Rajnish和所有那些人发现但是Rajnish本人是令人惊讶的，我第一次在Jabalpur遇到他，因为他认识我的侄女，他说，“你的阿姨有来，我想见她，“因为那些日子我的丈夫是个大人物，所以，也许，他想要见到我或者不管它是什么，但是只要他看到我，他就会在我面前伸展自己 - 我的兄弟也是和我说，“你是Adishakti，你是Adishakti，”所以我做了一个节目，我说，“你是什么Adishakti，我不知道 - 这是什么，你在说什么？”他说， “你对此一无所知？”我说，“不，不，我什么都不知道。”所以他想从Shastriji那里得到一些东西。我说，“没事，我很抱歉，我对所有这些事情都没有好处。如果你愿意，你可以预约Shastriji。“Shastriji没有预约，”Mera dimaag kharaab hai？“他曾经这样说过。所以它发生了。

Then when I came to Bombay again he got after Me. We had an Impala car from Shipping Corporation and wanted to buy that. His attention was only on money or this. He was saying – I had a kada with Me. “Why don’t You give me this kada?” I said, “Why, this is given to Me by My family people, why do you want to have? You are a man what will you do with the kada?” He said, “I’ll make money out of it.” “But why do you want to make money, you are a sadhu, you are a sanyasi?” I couldn’t understand him throughout.
然后，当我再次来到孟买时，他得到了我。我们有一辆来自航运公司的Impala汽车并想购买。他的注意力仅限于金钱或这个。他说 - 我和我有一个kada。 “你为什么不给我这个kada？”我说，“为什么，这是由我的家人给我的，你为什么要这样做？你是一个男人，你会对卡达做什么？“他说，”我会从中赚钱。“”但你为什么要赚钱，你是萨杜，你是一个三亚斯？“我不能在整个过程中都不了解他。

Then he said, “No, no but I’m doing lot of work You don’t know and You must come and see Me this.” One day he asked Me to go to his lecture and he was, I mean, he used to telephone Me too much so My husband said, “It is so much better go what is the harm after all.” Went there to his lecture so he said, “You sit on the dais.” In the presence of everybody if somebody goes on saying, “Sit on the dais,” so I said, “Alright,” I went and sat. Immediately somebody took My photograph. It’s a blackmailing system you know, he took My photograph. Then we went to, he said, “You come to Nargol,” and he telephoned to Me so many times – My husband said, “I have a friend there nearby, You go and stay there after all You can go and see this man what he’s doing after all he’s saying, maybe, there is some truth in it.” I said, “Alright baba.” Now My husband I didn’t know what to tell him about this man that I didn’t think much of him. Then I went there.
然后他说：“不，不，但我做了很多工作，你不知道，你必须来看我这个。”有一天，他让我去看他的讲座，他是，我的意思是，他用过过多地打电话给我，所以我的丈夫说：“毕竟伤害到底真是太好了。”他去了他的讲座，所以他说，“你坐在台上。”如果有人去，所有人都在场。说，“坐在台上”，所以我说，“好吧，”我去坐了。马上有人拍了我的照片。这是一个你知道的勒索系统，他拍了我的照片。然后我们去了，他说，“你来到纳尔戈尔，”他多次打电话给我 - 我的丈夫说，“我附近有一个朋友，你毕竟留在那里你可以去看看这个男人他正在做什么，他说，也许，其中有一些道理。“我说，”好吧巴巴。“现在，我的丈夫，我不知道怎么告诉他这个男人，我对他的想法不多。然后我去了那里。

I went and I saw the way he was mesmerizing people. They were all fainting, rolling on the… I was so disgusted with them. that was on the 4th of May 1970 – the 5th of May this I broke this seventh chakra – that’s the thing I broke. He doesn’t know a word about Kundalini, he doesn’t know anything, anything. He doesn’t know any medical, he doesn’t know any science, he doesn’t know about our Indian music, he doesn’t know about Western music – he is a, he’s not at all knowledgeable, not at all knowledgeable. He eats like a glutton – I saw him eating, I said, “Baba what is this? Some rakshasa eating food like that.” I’m telling you the truth, you see, and then he got diabetes, this, that; He’s ten years younger to Me and he is now lying sick. He is a uh… thrown out of all these places.
我去了，我看到了他迷人的方式。他们都晕了过来......我对他们很反感。那是在1970年5月4日 -  5月5日，我打破了这第七个脉轮 - 这就是我打破的事情。他对昆达里尼一无所知，他什么都不知道。他不懂任何医学，他不懂任何科学，他不了解我们的印度音乐，他不了解西方音乐 - 他是一个，他根本不知情，根本不知情。他像馋嘴一样吃 - 我看到他吃，我说，“巴巴这是什么？一些rakshasa吃这样的食物。“我告诉你实话，你看，然后他得了糖尿病，这个，那个;他比我年轻十岁，他现在躺着病了。他是一个呃...被抛出这些地方。

Now explanation he’s very good at giving. He says because of Pope he was thrown out – not at all because America doesn’t follow Pope; They’re all Protestant countries who threw him out. He didn’t go to any uh.. South American countries where I go and I talk about the wrongs of Christianity, wrongs of Hinduism, wrongs of all the religions, of the Islam and everything and I tell them that what is written in the Bible, what is written in the … Koran also they have described sahaja yoga. They have said it that, “At the time of resurrection your hands will speak.” Clearly it is said. So, you see, if you talk to these people, if they’re not fundamentalists, they listen to you and it works otherwise how can I work in Turkey and places like that. And we have in Algeria so many scientist, aeronautical engineers – so many people there. So it’s such a unique thing you have got. Now, I would request you to put forward these things for people Actually there was no need also for Me to advertise because, you will see that wherever I go I – in Delhi there are at least 10000 people, in NOIDA there were 14000 people, in the villages they come from all over. Even for this thing, poor things, had come on their bullock-carts and all that and everybody was hit, everyone was hit because there were about 400 stones – they threw such big, big stones and the stones were there already.
现在解释他非常擅长给予。他说，因为教皇将他抛弃 - 根本不是因为美国不跟随教皇;他们都是将他赶出去的新教国家。他没有去任何呃我去过的南美国家，我谈论基督教的错误，印度教的错误，所有宗教的错误，伊斯兰教的错误以及一切，我告诉他们写的是什么。圣经，写的是什么......古兰经也描述了霎哈嘉瑜伽。他们说过，“在复活时，你的双手会说话。”显然有人说。所以，你看，如果你和这些人交谈，如果他们不是原教旨主义者，他们就会倾听你的意见，否则我就能在土耳其和那样的地方工作。我们在阿尔及利亚有这么多科学家，航空工程师 - 那里有很多人。所以你有这么独特的东西。现在，我会要求你为人们提出这些事实际上我也没有必要做广告，因为你会看到无论我走到哪里 - 在德里至少有10000人，在NOIDA有14000人，他们来自各地的村庄。即使是这件事情，可怜的东西也来了他们的牛车，所有这一切，每个人都受到了打击，每个人都被击中，因为有大约400块石头 - 他们扔了这么大的大石头，石头已经在那里了。

They had everything nicely done because they had these ladders and they had those stones for the road building and they threw them. – Do You have any guru [UNCLEAR]? – I have no guru. There is no guru needed for Me. You see, I was born like this Everybody – a guru’s guru’s guru who will be? It’s like that. So, you see, I’m an ancient person and to know Me it’s better that you come to sahaja yoga and then you know Me because, see now, Christ said, “I’m the Son, I’m the only Son of God,” – it’s a fact. Actually Christ is the incarnation of Ganesha – we can prove it, we can prove all these things on vibration. If you get your realization, we can prove everything. We can prove the existence of God, we can prove the existence of what we’re saying – everything that I say we can prove it on vibrations.
他们做得很好，因为他们有这些梯子，他们把这些石头用于道路建设，然后扔掉了。 - 你有没有大师[UNCLEAR]？ - 我没有上师。我不需要大师。你看，我出生就像这样每个人 - 一个古茹的大师的大师将会是谁？就像那样。所以，你看，我是一个古老的人，要知道我，你来霎哈嘉瑜伽然后你认识我更好，因为，现在看，基督说：“我是儿子，我是唯一的儿子上帝，“ - 这是事实。实际上基督是甘尼萨的化身 - 我们可以证明它，我们可以在振动上证明所有这些事情。如果你意识到，我们可以证明一切。我们可以证明上帝的存在，我们可以证明我们所说的存在 - 我所说的一切都可以在振动中证明它。

Supposing I say the truth, then you start getting the cool breeze much more but if there’s something, somebody’s a false guru, false man, you put your hand it’ll start burning. You diagnose only on your finger-tips, on your finger-tips you can diagnose and that’s how all these, after all these are all such highly qualified doctors and things and scientists. They themselves have experienced and they are experimenting and also to say that I take money and – there’s no need because My husband earns quite a lot and by God’s Grace he’s a very generous man and he feels that I’m doing a very good work so he’s helping Me. But one side are these false gurus and the people who suffer from Andhashraddha where I tell them that don’t God, they say that Devi comes in the body – I say, “No, nothing of the kind,” so they’re on one side, another side are these people. I just don’t know. In India it’s this problem – nowhere How can Russians – imagine? There was no religion for Russians so far – isn’t it? They had no religion but imagine how they jumped into sahaja yoga! – You don’t have any center in Bombay? – We have so many – In Bombay?
假设我说实话，那么你开始得到凉爽的微风，但是如果有什么东西，有人是假大师，假人，你把手放开就会开始燃烧。你只能用你的指尖，你可以诊断的指尖进行诊断，这就是所有这些，毕竟这些都是如此高素质的医生，事物和科学家。他们自己都经历过，他们正在试验，并说，我拿钱和 - 有没有必要，因为我的丈夫赚了不少，并通过神的恩典，他是一个非常慷慨的人，他觉得我做了很好的工作，所以他正在帮助我。但是有一方面是这些假大师和遭受安哈沙德达的人，我告诉他们不是上帝，他们说德维进入了身体 - 我说，“不，没有那种，”所以他们在一方面，另一方是这些人。我只是不知道。在印度，这就是这个问题 - 无处俄罗斯人怎能想象？到目前为止，俄罗斯人没有宗教信仰 - 不是吗？他们没有宗教信仰，但想象他们是如何跳入霎哈嘉瑜伽的！ - 孟买没有任何中心？ - 我们有这么多 - 在孟买？

– Oh! so many. – [MARATHI] [SHRI MATAJI SPEAKS IN MARATHI] Now, you must sometimes put the positive side and such a hope for young people, such a hope for our children! – You must see the utility of this. You see this I, we are not politicians, we have nothing to do with politics. – Where we can see this sahaja yoga? Haan, we centers at Dadar on every Thursday at 6:30, Saane Guruji Vidyalaya behind Catering College, we are there and we would all invite you there, please come there. That’s our main center. You go and see, you go and see and get your realization. Unless and until you get your realization – We are having at Bhartiya Vidya Bhawan – You see, like this television is here – unless and until you put to the mains it doesn’t work so you don’t have to pay anything, nothing will go wrong with you on the contrary if you have any problems, they’ll be solved so why not take to your realization – this is your own.
 - 哦！很多。 -  [MARATHI] [SHRI MATAJI讲话在马拉蒂]现在，你有时必须把积极的一面和年轻人的希望，这样的希望给我们的孩子！ - 你必须看到这个的效用。你看到我，我们不是政治家，我们与政治无关。 - 我们在哪里可以看到这个霎哈嘉瑜伽？ Haan，我们每周四6:30在Dadar，Saane Guruji Vidyalaya在Catering College后面，我们在那里，我们都会邀请你到那里，请到那里。那是我们的主要中心。你去看看，你去看看并实现你的目标。除非你得到你的认识 - 我们正在Bhartiya Vidya Bhawan  - 你看，就像这个电视在这里 - 除非你把电源放到电源上它不起作用所以你不需要付任何东西，没有什么会如果你遇到任何问题就会出错，他们会被解决，所以为什么不接受你的意识 - 这是你自己的。

You see, just like one enlightened light can enlighten you. We have a, we have a correspondent who came with a skeptical mind – he got realization, he’s alright now. [INAUDIBLE] They can give realization, you can give realization. Now I don’t do it, you see, I don’t cure people. but these people are demanding, “You must show us, You must give us proof.” What right have they got? Alright, I said, ” Alright, I will show you, I will do it.” I did promise everything but this is not the way – now they will not allow Me to touch them. Yeh to khonchipana hai na? And the police plays into their hands, the police, the entire – even doctor, you’ll be surprised, they would not give us the certificate of the doctor there.
你看，就像一个开明的光可以启发你。我们有一个，我们有一个记者带着怀疑的心态 - 他意识到，他现在好了。 [听不清]他们可以实现，你可以实现。现在我不这样做，你看，我不治愈别人。但这些人要求，“你必须告诉我们，你必须给我们证明。”他们有什么权利？好吧，我说，“好吧，我会告诉你，我会做的。”我确实承诺了一切，但这不是道路 - 现在他们不允许我碰他们。你到khonchipana hai na？而警察，他们的手，警察，整个 - 甚至医生，都会感到惊讶，他们不会给我们那里的医生证明。

Three days they had to struggle. Then I took them to Kolhapur and Kolhapur, the Mission hospital was shocked at the condition and they gave all the certificates to us. Everybody is [UNCLEAR – GLABBING?] hand and two people have been demoted – one in [UNCLEAR – FUNDARAIYA?] school, another one they have been demoted and police is after these people, who are innocent people. They’re with Me throughout. – What is this going on? – Why You have selected Satara? – Annh? – Are You a selected Satara?
三天他们不得不挣扎。然后我带他们到Kolhapur和Kolhapur，Mission医院对这种情况感到震惊，他们把所有证书交给我们。每个人都是[UNCLEAR  -  GLABBING？]手，两个人被降职 - 一个在[UNCLEAR  -  FUNDARAIYA？]学校，另一个被降职，警察在追捕这些纯真的人。他们一直和我在一起。 - 这是怎么回事？ - 为什么选择萨塔拉？ - 安？ - 你是一个精选的萨塔拉？

No, you see, Satara we have – actually on our way to Brahmapuri we went to Satara. We’ve been there for the last seven years to Satara and in that place we have been because it’s a Ramdasa’s place you know that very well; It’s a specially blessed place and Satara people are very nice that way and they showed us also this Mallakhamb, Leghim, everything – they respected us very well always. So this time these were only 16 or 17 people only and at Angapur they were, they were saying so that there were 12 people and 4 or 5 were standing outside with a three cars. One was a Maruti, another one was a Ambassador and one was some jeep, some sort of a thing. I mean this is this is called as Andhashraddha Nirmulan? I am the one who has been talking about it since the year 1970. I’ve told them, “This is andhashraddha you cannot do it, this is andhashraddha, this is, what is Swayambhu what is not Swayambhu. Even about Christianity I told them what is andhashraddha. I told about Paul so many things against him and when the Archbishop of Canterbury’s advisor was in My program and I said everything very clearly, at that day I don’t know why he was there and I said it against Paul, the way he has spoiled Christianity and he was shocked but nobody did this to Me, nobody did this to Me. Moreover, you see, now we are recognised as a religion, as a Federal religion, in America as a Federal religion.
不，你看，我们有萨塔拉 - 实际上在前往Brahmapuri的途中我们去了萨塔拉。我们在过去的七年里一直在那里去过萨塔拉，在那个地方我们一直都是因为这是一个Ramdasa的地方，你知道的很好;这是一个特别幸福的地方，萨塔拉人非常友好，他们向我们展示了这个Mallakhamb，Leghim，一切 - 他们总是非常尊重我们。所以这次这些人只有16或17人而且他们在Angapur，他们说是这样，有12个人，4或5个人站在外面，有三辆车。一个是Maruti，另一个是大使，一个是吉普车，某种东西。我的意思是这被称为Andhashraddha Nirmulan？我是自1970年以来一直在谈论它的人。我告诉他们，“这是andhashraddha你不能这样做，这是和hashraddha，这是，什么是Swayambhu什么不是Swayambhu。甚至关于基督教，我告诉他们什么是andhashraddha。我告诉保罗这么多事情都是针对他的，当坎特伯雷大主教的顾问在我的计划中并且我非常清楚地说了一切，那天我不知道他为什么在那里而且我对保罗这样说过他的方式被宠坏了的基督教，他感到震惊，但没有人对我这么做，没有人这样对我。而且，你看，现在我们被认为是一种宗教，作为一种联邦宗教，在美国被认为是一种联邦宗教。

Then also we are recognised in, uh.. in Russia as an independent organisation. In Italy they wrote a book about Me saying, calling Me ‘The Person of The Year’ and they sent their people for televising and they must have televised the whole thing – they were with us. The government sent it. Of course, I don’t expect this government – but this is not the way to get after us – for what? and if this kind of thing is going to work, you see, this is Rajnish style work – it’s all manipulation. He did the same style of things in that Rajnishpuram. If you want to know some Americans can tell you all details about but, I think, I would go away now you better see this film This is a very unique film which was purchased by Mr. Rajnish and he’s not allowed to show in any public place that’s why we arranged this place but you better have a look. I better go away I can’t bear it, it’s too much, it’s too much of it! My sensitivity… Have you all seen it or not? Hain, dekha?
然后，我们在俄罗斯作为一个独立的组织被认可。在意大利，他们写了一本关于我的书，称我为“年度人物”，他们派人去做电视，他们必须播放整个电视节目 - 他们和我们在一起。政府发了它。当然，我不指望这个政府 - 但这不是追求我们的方式 - 为了什么？如果这种事情能发挥作用，你会发现，这是拉吉风格的作品 - 这都是操纵。他在Rajnishpuram做了同样的事情。如果你想知道一些美国人可以告诉你所有的细节但是，我想，我会离开现在你最好看这部电影这是一部非常独特的电影，由Rajnish先生购买，他不允许在任何公开场合展示这就是为什么我们安排这个地方，但你最好看看。我最好离开我不忍心，它太多了，它太多了！我的敏感性......你们都见过不见了吗？海恩，德卡？

Put yourself into bandhan and see. I don’t know, I better go – Mere bas ka nahin. – [UNCLEAR] Mataji, tell us something about … – About what? – [UNCLEAR] U.N. – U.N.? – United Nations Organisation – Kya bataein? Nahin, uspe ek Mera – [UNCLEAR] Nahin, Maine ek, I’ve, I gave a lecture which was relayed in Australia about para-modernism, about para-modernism how by the recession, by the, by the behaviour of the Russian policy, that we are now, we are now finished, we are now finished as far as the political problems have concerned quite a lot because you see one side is gone – you clap with both the hands and the one hand is gone like Gorbachev was really, definitely, objectively and sincerely has shown his interest in all kinds of military thing to establish peace so now Americans have to do something about it – so that problem is over but also UN has another problem is Fundamentalism. Then we have got another problem is of, as he told you, of the ecological, ecological imbalances. Now, ecological imbalances, as he said, has will only come when there’s a transformation of human-beings and the awareness that of course, you can only achieve through sahaja yoga but also you’ll be amazed that – Dr. Hamid is not here but he was asked by his government – he was a, I think, was an Advisor in Agriculture in some country by the UN but later on now he’s working in Austria and the Austrian government requested him to help the trees because they were dying out with acid rain so he took vibrated water and put it to these trees and he came and told Me, “Mother, 60 years old trees have died away but all the rest have come up and they are doing all right.” So they have, they have developed such [UNCLEAR – TREG?] that they can even fight the acid rain also.
把自己放到bandhan看看。我不知道，我最好去 - 仅仅是巴斯卡纳欣。 -  [UNCLEAR] Mataji，告诉我们一些关于......  - 关于什么？ -  [UNCLEAR]联合国 - 联合国？ - 联合国组织 -  Kya bataein？ Nahin，uspe ek Mera  -  [UNCLEAR] Nahin，Maine ek，我，我做了一个讲座，在澳大利亚传达了关于现代主义，关于现代主义的经济衰退，俄罗斯的行为政策，我们现在，我们现在已经完成，我们现在已经完成了政治问题已经关注很多，因为你看到一方已经消失了 - 你用双手拍手，一方面像戈尔巴乔夫一样消失了真的，绝对地，客观地，真诚地表现出他对建立和平的各种军事利益的兴趣所以现在美国人必须对此采取行动 - 所以问题已经结束，但联合国还有另一个问题就是原教旨主义。然后，正如他告诉你的，我们还有另一个问题是生态，生态失衡。现在，正如他所说的那样，生态失衡只会在人类的转变和意识到来时才会出现，当然，你只能通过霎哈嘉瑜伽实现，但你也会感到惊讶 - 哈米德博士不在这里但他被政府问过 - 他认为，他是联合国在某个国家的农业顾问，但后来他现在在奥地利工作，奥地利政府要求他帮助这些树，因为他们已经死了酸雨，所以他拿起振动的水，把它放到这些树上，他来告诉我，“母亲，60岁的树已经消失，但其余的都已经出现了，他们做得很好。”所以他们有，他们已经开发了这样的[UNCLEAR  -  TREG？]，他们甚至可以对抗酸雨。

So ecological problems can be solved. Also ecological problems come in because you see the people go to extremes – like machines are for us we are not for machines but you go on like mad creating machines. Now, they were going to, also this government wanted to have some – the other day when I was in Ganapatipule all these poor villagers came, especially these people who are fisherman, they said, “You must do something for us we pray to You.” I said, “What has happened?” They are going to get all the toxic things from all over the world, all the waste matter and they are going to make something out of it on the shores of uh.. Ganpatipule, near Jaigarh, so all the fishes will be dead, no doubt and if there’s a leakage, all the people can be finished. So why to do such a thing, what is the need? You see, there are so many other things one can do to improve the conditions of our people and constructively we should work. Now, I have in My small way have thought of so many ways by which we can work out so many things and we have already started a center for the women, for the downtrodden in the villages, to teach them certain things how uh.. collectively they can work out ceramics and things like that because it is done by some middlemen always and the middlemen take all the money, they suffer. Now, then I’m thinking of asking people near My place to grow lots of flowers and we can have a negotiation with Japan, who want to buy the flowers so they can bring their aeroplanes. If we’re not middlemen between they’ll get all the profits and they’ll become alright.
因此可以解决生态问题。还有生态问题，因为你看到人们走向极端 - 就像机器对我们而言，我们不是为了机器而是你疯狂地创造机器。现在，他们要去了，这个政府也希望有一些 - 有一天当我在Ganapatipule时，所有这些贫穷的村民来了，特别是这些渔夫的人，他们说，“你必须为我们做点什么，我们向你祈祷“我说，”发生了什么事？“他们将从世界各地获得所有有毒的东西，所有的废物，他们将在呃的海岸上制造出一些东西...... Ganpatipule，附近Jaigarh，所有的鱼都会死了，毫无疑问，如果有泄漏，所有的人都可以完成。那么为什么要做这样的事情，有什么需要呢？你看，还有很多其他的事情可以改善我们人民的条件，建设性的我们应该工作。现在，我以我的方式想到了很多方法，我们可以通过这么多的方式解决这么多事情，我们已经开始为女性设立一个中心，为村里的受压迫者，教他们某些事情，如何......他们可以共同研究陶瓷和类似的东西，因为它总是由一些中间人完成而中间人拿走所有的钱，他们受苦。现在，我正在考虑要求我家附近的人种植大量鲜花，我们可以与日本进行谈判，他们想买花，这样他们就可以带上他们的飞机。如果我们不是中间人，他们将获得所有的利润，他们会变得好。

See like that you can do so many things in our country but the middlemen, the greedy people they kill them but sahaja yogis are not like that. They’re honest people, they, they don’t take any money like that – we, we have no embezzlement, nothing. We are very, very honest and law-abiding people. – Do You need money for all these activities or not? – No, you see activities, of course, we do need but what happens that now, for example, I’ve come here so My husband pays for My ticket to come to India – after all he’s very highly paid and we have no expenses as such but otherwise, the expenses now for example, hiring a hall or something, so they collect some money among themselves – now we have so many sahaja yogis. In the beginning for about four, five years I was paying for everything to begin with even for the people, their food and everything, I used to pay because you know, My husband is a very generous man and he believes that what work I’m doing is very good. so I used to pay quite a …. I had to sell My ornaments also, My family ornaments – I did it – but now, you see, the thing is that uh.. now they are so many and they want that for the programs and all that they are but for realization you cannot pay – I don’t take any money. I don’t know, actually you’ll be surprised, we have a trust, there we have trustees, I’ve never even seen the accounts or anything. I have a Chartered Accountant who comes and sees and corrects it but I, I don’t touch money.
看起来你可以在我们国家做很多事情，但中间人，他们杀死他们的贪婪的人，但霎哈嘉瑜伽士不是那样的。他们是诚实的人，他们，他们不会拿这样的钱 - 我们，我们没有贪污，没有。我们是非常，非常诚实和守法的人。 - 您是否需要钱来进行所有这些活动？ - 不，你看活动，当然，我们确实需要，但现在发生了什么，例如，我来到这里，所以我的丈夫支付我的机票来到印度 - 毕竟他的薪水很高，我们没有开支因此，现在费用，例如，雇用大厅或其他东西，所以他们自己收集一些钱 - 现在我们有这么多霎哈嘉瑜伽士。在大约四年，五年的开始，我为所有事情付出了代价，即使是为了人民，他们的食物和一切，我曾经付钱，因为你知道，我的丈夫是一个非常慷慨的人，他相信我的工作是什么我做的非常好。所以我以前付的钱很多......我不得不出售我的饰品，我的家居饰品 - 我做到了 - 但是现在，你知道，事情就是那个......现在它们已经很多了，他们想要这些程序和他们所有但是为了实现你不能支付 - 我不拿任何钱。我不知道，实际上你会感到惊讶，我们有信任，我们有受托人，我从来没有见过帐户或任何东西。我有一位特许会计师来看看并纠正它，但我，我不接触钱。

I don’t need, why did I need money for, for what? – For raising the Kundalini you don’t need any money – For travelling and all that? – Travelling My husband pays na, My husband pays just now for Me But even supposing you pay for My travelling, supposing, in case, supposing My husband says, “I will not pay,” supposing then you don’t pay Me, you pay to the aeroplanes, isn’t it? You pay Me, you see, these people, their lifestyle [LAUGHTER] you see, the whole lifestyle [CLAPPING] whole lifestyle they, they have 600 crores of diamonds this, that – yousee, this is not good. In the name of God, in the name of God you cannot make your livelihood – even livelihood is wrong, even the livelihood. You have seen people like Tukaram and all that. You see, Christ was born to a carpenter, He lived like a carpenter. Now My, you see, I come from a rich family, I must say. We are from Shalivahanas, you see, Royal family. My, We are well off people.
我不需要，为什么我需要钱，为了什么？ - 为了筹集昆达利尼，你不需要任何钱 - 旅行和所有这些？ - 旅行我的丈夫支付纳，我的丈夫现在支付给我但是，即使假设你支付我的旅行，假设，以防，假设我的丈夫说，“我不会支付，”假设你不支付我，你付给飞机，不是吗？你付钱给我，你看，这些人，他们的生活方式[笑声]你看，整个生活方式[CLAPPING]整个生活方式他们，他们有600亿卢比的钻石，那 - 你看，这不好。以上帝的名义，以上帝的名义，你无法谋生 - 甚至生计也是错误的，甚至是生计。你见过像Tukaram这样的人。你看，基督出生于一个木匠，他像木匠一样生活。现在我的，你看，我来自一个富裕的家庭，我必须说。我们来自Shalivahanas，你看，皇室。我的，我们富裕的人。

My husband also comes from a rich family and he’s a very big man there also and he’s got a big, big, big pay and all that. All that is there but, still, I can live anywhere; I can live in a hut, I can live anywhere – I’ve no problems because you see, if you just seek the comforts of your Spirit, so supposing, they are paying for this – it’s all right, let them pay. But this doesn’t mean that they pay Me for Kundalini awakening. You see, make a clear cut understanding that for Spirituality you cannot pay. Haan, you can pay for material things now, you have to pay after all but it’s not much, you see, if, if you are a sahaja yogi, so many miracles happen. They say, “Mother, we got it for a very cheap thing, we got it for a very,” you see, it all works out so well. I started sahaja yoga with one person and you can imagine uh.., of course I did spend money quite a lot before that but now I don’t spend so much money as they are organising everything except for travelling. Now My husband wants to pay for travelling. Last time they had a fight, they said, “She shouldn’t, She shouldn’t pay for our salvation.” So there was a fight, in England, about it but still My husband insisted, “Nothing doing, let me pay for Her travel.”
我的丈夫也来自一个富裕的家庭，他也是一个非常大的男人，他有一个巨大的，大的，高薪和所有这一切。所有这一切，但仍然，我可以住在任何地方;我可以住在一间小屋里，我可以住在任何地方 - 我没有问题，因为你看，如果你只是寻求你的灵的舒适，所以假设，他们正在为此付出代价 - 没关系，让他们付钱。但这并不意味着他们为昆达里尼的觉醒付出了代价。你看，明确了解灵性你不能付出。哈恩，你现在可以支付物质费用，毕竟你必须支付，但不是很多，你看，如果你是一名霎哈嘉瑜伽士，那么多奇迹就会发生。他们说，“母亲，我们得到的是一件非常便宜的东西，我们得到的非常好，”你看，这一切都很顺利。我和一个人一起开始霎哈嘉瑜伽，你可以想象呃..当然，我之前确实花了很多钱，但现在我没有花太多钱，因为除了旅行之外，他们正在组织一切。现在我的丈夫想支付旅费。上次他们打架，他们说，“她不应该，她不应该为我们的救赎付出代价。”所以在英格兰有一场关于它的斗争，但我的丈夫坚持说，“没什么，让我支付因为她的旅行。“

And he’s kept money for Me there so that I should not have any problem about travelling. You see, we have children married in very good families and they’re also very satisfied people and you know about My husband. He’s a well-known honest man, I mean, he’s honest to a uh.. fault, very honest man. He was with Shastriji and he’s got Padmabhushan for that and he’s known for his honesty – and I like it because we need today honest people. – What is the message? The message is that we are the Spirit and we have to become the Spirit. This is the last evolutionary living process – from human, human life, from human awareness you have to get the Spiritual awareness and the whole thing will change. Now we have people with 36 nations such brotherhood, such love, no quarrel, nothing. – But they are only handful of people. – No, no, no.
他在那里为我存钱，所以我不应该对旅行有任何问题。你看，我们有孩子在非常好的家庭中结婚，他们也很满意，你知道我的丈夫。他是一个众所周知的诚实的人，我的意思是，他是诚实的，对某个人来说，这是一个错误，非常诚实的人。他和沙斯特里基在一起，他为帕德马布山而且他以诚实而闻名 - 我喜欢它，因为我们今天需要诚实的人。 - 消息是什么？信息是我们是圣灵，我们必须成为圣灵。这是最后一个进化生命过程 - 从人类，人类生活，人类意识到你必须获得精神意识，整个事物都会发生变化。现在我们有36个国家的人这样的兄弟情谊，这样的爱，没有争吵，没有。 - 但他们只是少数几个人。 - 不不不。

There are thousands. In every country there are thousands. In thousands. To start with, of course, but not now. These are only selected people who have come here. See there are thousands and thousands and many could be. You see, we should, we should think that we all should help and we all should be like them – why not? That means you want to have many people – is a very good idea. You should have many people like that – why not? Is a very good idea to think that we should have many more; I would love to do.
有成千上万。每个国家都有数千人。成千上万。首先，当然，但不是现在。这些只是来过这里的人。看到有成千上万，有许多可能。你知道，我们应该认为我们都应该帮助，我们都应该像他们一样 - 为什么不呢？这意味着你想拥有很多人 - 这是一个非常好的主意。你应该有很多这样的人 - 为什么不呢？认为我们应该有更多的东西是一个非常好的主意;我很想做。

I mean, My age, do you know, is 67 years now and I’ll be starting My 68th year this March but still I’m travelling so much and I hardly sleep and hardly eat – I mean, I’m working so very hard so I’ll be very happy. As long as I can live, I would like to work and spread the message everywhere and get people their realization. This is all predicted in our books. In Nadi Granth they have all predicted it. Even Rabindra babu has described it. There’s one Louis, is a great poet in England, he has described it clearly and of course, I must say, William Blake, if you have read William Blake, he’s described it very clearly. We had it in Nadi Granth completely written down, the complete sahaja yoga and Gyaneshwara has described as Pasaydaan so there has been seers who have described it; So the time has come for us to change and to enjoy – so why not enjoy? Then in the newspaper, you’ll be only talking about sahaja yoga. As we have a a newspaper, we talk only about sahaja yoga – what happened, how people gained this thing, how they were rewarded, how, what nice things happened – everything nice, nothing shocking – no sensations. So, I mean, I, I would say that you should take to sahaja yog.
我的意思是，我的年龄，你知道吗，现在已经67岁了，今年3月我将开始我的第68个年头但是我仍然旅行太多而且我几乎不能睡觉而且几乎不吃 - 我的意思是，我工作得很好辛苦，所以我会很开心。只要我能活下去，我想在各地工作和传播信息，让人们认识到。这一切都在我们的书中预测。在Nadi Granth，他们都预测到了这一点。甚至Rabindra babu也描述过它。有一个路易斯，在英格兰是一位伟大的诗人，他已经清楚地描述了它，当然，我必须说，威廉布莱克，如果你读过威廉布莱克，他已经非常清楚地描述了它。我们在Nadi Granth完全写下了它，完整的霎哈嘉瑜伽和Gyaneshwara描述为Pasaydaan所以有一些先知已经描述过它;所以现在是时候改变和享受 - 所以为什么不享受？然后在报纸上，你将只谈论霎哈嘉瑜伽。因为我们有一份报纸，我们只讨论霎哈嘉瑜伽 - 发生了什么，人们如何获得这件事，他们如何获得奖励，如何，发生了什么好事 - 一切都很好，没有什么令人震惊的 - 没有感觉。所以，我的意思是，我会说你应该服用霎哈嘉瑜伽士。

Firstly, you will not get into any diseases, alright, secondly, mentally you’ll be very satisfied and a happy person emotionally, you’ll be a very balanced person. You’ll become a real uh correspondent because you’ll develop a witness state – a witness state where you’ll not be biased and you can penetrate into the problems – you’ll be able to know what’s going wrong and thirdly you’ll become a peaceful personality, absolutely peaceful and that peace is what we need today; Only talking about peace, peace doesn’t come – peace has to come from within. And you’ll be a very righteous person, you’ll be very proud of your virtues and you’ll enjoy each other all over the world; They’re all your brothers and sisters from all over the world. Alright? It’s very relaxing and beautiful [MARATHI] [ALL CLAP AND GARLAND SHRI MATAJI] So we have to be very pragmatic and we have to be very constructive and something so unique we have which we have to put forward and I would say that you will pay full attention to it, you’ll go through it, read it and put it the way you like but the best thing is to write about sahaja yog; These all these things are – there’s already a criminal case on these people, so it’s alright, don’t you worry. – Hello! – Some more flowers. – Ah… – [CLAPPING] – [CLAPPING] Can you imagine that Germans went to Russia to give them realization – Germans? Can you imagine such a thing happening that Germans went to Russia to give realization? So all this kind of a mutual understanding, mutual – What’s it?
首先，你不会患上任何疾病，好吧，其次，在心理上，你会非常满意，在情感上你是一个快乐的人，你将成为一个非常平衡的人。你将成为一名真正的通讯员，因为你会建立一个证人国家 - 一个你不会有偏见的证人国家，你可以深入了解问题 - 你将能够知道出了什么问题，第三，你将会成为一个和平的人，绝对和平，和平是我们今天所需要的;只谈和平，和平不会来 - 和平必须来自内心。你将成为一个非常正直的人，你将为自己的美德感到骄傲，你将在世界各地享受彼此;他们都是来自世界各地的兄弟姐妹。好的？这是非常放松和美丽[马拉蒂] [所有CLAP和GARLAND SHRI MATAJI]所以我们必须非常务实，我们必须非常有建设性，我们必须提出一些独特的东西，我会说你会支付充分注意它，你会经历它，读它并按照你喜欢的方式，但最好的事情是写关于霎哈嘉瑜伽;所有这些都是 - 这些人已经有刑事案件，所以没关系，你不担心。 - 你好！ - 更多的鲜花。 - 啊......  -  [CLAPPING]  -  [CLAPPING]你能想象德国人去俄罗斯让他们意识到 - 德国人？你能想象德国人去俄罗斯实现这样的事吗？所以这一切都是相互理解的，相互的 - 它是什么？

From Austria? – Can You solve this Punjab problem? – Of course, why not, hundred percent. – Oh! – I’ll tell you. – [CLAPPING] – [UNCLEAR] He’s saying it’s very lucky for the Yes, it’s a, it’s a very easy thing, you see. We have so many Sikhs in our community Mr. Khurana is a Sikh. What work I’m doing, is the work of Gurunanaka himself. Gurunanaka is the one who has written clearly about Kundalini. Kabira has described it so clearly in that.
来自奥地利？ - 你能解决这个旁遮普问题吗？ - 当然，为什么不，百分之百。 - 哦！ - 我会告诉你。 -  [CLAPPING]  -  [UNCLEAR]他说这是非常幸运的，是的，这是一个，这是一个非常容易的事情，你看。在我们的社区，我们有很多锡克教徒Khurana先生是锡克教徒。我正在做的工作是Gurunanaka本人的工作。 Gurunanaka是一个清楚写过Kundalini的人。卡比拉已经如此清楚地描述了这一点。

He was so systematic that he got all the great saints of our country together to put this Granth Sahab. In the Granth Sahab there is Namadeva also – Namadeva was a great saint from India and he made him learn Punjabi language and such a big book he has written. Now, if you can put before them the ideals of Gurunanaka and what Namadeva has written and all that – you see they are disturbed people but if you tell them that there is a way to get realization – I must tell you one thing – Sikhs and Muslims are the best to get realization; Once they get it, they are there somehow or the other because they talk of abstract, I think, somehow and we have so many Sikhs now – in Delhi there are so many Sikhs who are coming to sahaja yoga and once it spreads to that side, I’m sure, everything will neutralize, – everything will neutralize. – and I saw several Pakistani’s also and they were talking – Haan, haan we have Pakistani’s also – yes, of course. [MARATHI] We have Pakistani’s also – yes, true; We have from 36 nations we have people here so you can imagine It can be easily solved. You see, what we have to do – sahaja yoga has a healing process – it heals, it heals your wounds, it heals your problems, you see. So, if the heal, the healing process in Punjab could be put, they’ll heal up and everything will be pacified absolutely. Just what you need is the healing process. I think, we have never used the power of love so far – only the hatred. Now, if you use the power of love, which I’m talking about – this All-Pervading power’s love – it’s very easy to work it out.
他是如此系统化，以至于他把我们国家的所有伟大的圣徒聚集在一起，把这个Granth Sahab。在Grath Sahab也有Namadeva  -  Namadeva是来自印度的伟大圣徒，他让他学习旁遮普语和他写的这么大的书。现在，如果你能把Gurunanaka的理想和Namadeva所写的理念和所有这些理由放在他们面前 - 你看他们是不安的人，但如果你告诉他们有办法实现 - 我必须告诉你一件事 - 锡克教徒和穆斯林是最好的实现;一旦他们得到它，他们就会以某种方式或其他因为他们谈论抽象，我想，不知怎的，我们现在有这么多的锡克教徒 - 在德里，有很多锡克教徒来到霎哈嘉瑜伽，一旦传播到那边，我敢肯定，一切都会中和， - 一切都会中和。 - 我也看到了几个巴基斯坦人，他们正在谈论 - 哈恩，哈恩，我们也有巴基斯坦人 - 当然，是的。 [马拉西]我们也有巴基斯坦人 - 是的，是的;我们有来自36个国家的人，所以你可以想象它可以轻松解决。你知道，我们必须做什么 - 霎哈嘉瑜伽有一个愈合的过程 - 它治愈，它治愈你的伤口，它治愈你的问题，你看。所以，如果治愈，旁遮普的治疗过程可以放，他们会愈合，一切都会绝对安抚。你需要的就是治疗过程。我想，到目前为止，我们从未使用过爱的力量 - 只有仇恨。现在，如果你使用我正在谈论的爱的力量 - 这种无所不在的力量的爱 - 它很容易解决。

You’ll be surprised, when I was going for the yoga seminar – I had been to Russia before – My husband said, “You have been just now to Russia, why do You want to go again?” I told him, “I have to go because we’ll get Eastern Bloc there and I want to break the Eastern Bloc [UNCLEAR], I have to go.” He said, “For two days?” “Yes, yes,” I said, “I’m sure, there will be Eastern Bloc.” and you’ll be surprised, in that Yoga seminar they had given Me 45 minutes and they were all people from places like East Germany, then all other these Eastern Bloc people, all of them were there and they got realization; 30 minutes they allowed Me to talk and 15 minutes gave them realization and I walked out – they all walked out with Me – there was nobody left in the hall. They gave their addresses of these places Czechoslovakia, every, Poland and all that and can you imagine, as soon as they went back, it cracked, it triggered. So, if we have some sahaja yogis from Punjab, who get to sahaja yoga and they go there, it will work out because they emit peace – such personalities emit peace. It is at a higher level we have to try, not with words or anything. You see, today you might say, “You are my brother, you are my sister,” [ASIDE – KHAIYE, KHAIYE NA, ITTI DER HO GAYI KYA KAR RAHE HO? AEY, DEO, TUM DEO – THODA, THODA KHAO.
当我参加瑜伽研讨会时，你会感到惊讶 - 我以前去过俄罗斯 - 我的丈夫说，“你刚才到俄罗斯，你为什么要再去？”我告诉他，“我必须去，因为我们将在那里获得东方集团，我想打破东方集团[UNCLEAR]，我必须去。“他说，”两天？“”是的，是的，“我说，”我当然，会有东方集团。“你会感到惊讶，在他们给我45分钟的瑜伽研讨会上，他们都是来自东德等地的人，然后是所有其他东方集团人，他们都是在那里，他们得到了实现; 30分钟他们允许我说话，15分钟让他们意识到我走了出去 - 他们都和我一起走了 - 大厅里没有人离开。他们给了他们捷克斯洛伐克这些地方的地址，每一个，波兰以及所有这些，你能想象，一旦他们回去，它就会破裂，它会触发。所以，如果我们有一些来自旁遮普的霎哈嘉瑜伽士，他们去霎哈嘉瑜伽并且他们去那里，它会发挥作用，因为它们会释放和平 - 这样的性格会带来和平。这是我们必须尝试的更高级别，而不是单词或任何东西。你看，今天你可能会说，“你是我的兄弟，你是我的妹妹”，[ASIDE  -  KHAIYE，KHAIYE NA，ITTI DER HO GAYI KYA KAR RAHE HO？ AEY，DEO，TUM DEO  -  THODA，THODA KHAO。

ARRE BHAI THODA KHAO KYA KARTE HO. ABHI MA KE GHAR MEIN AAYE HO, TUM KHANA NAHIN KHAOGE? LEO THODA KHAO CHALO, BAHUT DER HO GAYI. TAB SE BAITHE HO] YEH LOG SAB KHA KE AAYE HONGE. HAAN, THEY MUST BE HAVING FOR EVERYONE] So, you see, this is, we have never tried it but now see the work of love. Now Kaliyuga has gone, now Kritayuga has started where the All-Pervading power is working it out. – It’s such a – Rajiv Gandhi said, “We will come to power again.” – Annh? – Rajiv Gandhi said, “We’ll come to power again.” [SHRI MATAJI LAUGHS] You see, that’s not My area – I don’t want to say anything about it.
ARRE BHAI THODA KHAO KYA KARTE HO。 ABHI MA KE GHAR MEIN AAYE HO，TUM KHANA NAHIN KHAOGE？ LEO THODA KHAO CHALO，BAHUT DER HO GAYI。 TAB SE BAITHE HO] YEH LOG SAB KHA KE AAYE HONGE。哈恩，他们必须为每个人所用]所以，你看，这是，我们从来没有尝试过，但现在看到爱的工作。现在Kaliyuga已经离开了，现在Kritayuga已经开始了所有普遍存在的力量正在解决的问题。 - 就是这样 - 拉吉夫·甘地说：“我们将再次掌权。” - 安？ -  Rajiv Gandhi说：“我们将再次掌权。”[SHRI MATAJI LAUGHS]你看，那不是我的区域 - 我不想对此说些什么。

Whosoever comes to power again, whosoever it is, has to be now a benevolent king, has to be. Has to be – there’s no doubt about it. You see, this coming to power – what’s the sense in it, I don’t know. What is there – they haven’t got their own powers. You see, look at Me, I’ve all the powers with Me, so you can call Me a Capitalist. You can say, I’ve all the powers, so I’m the Capitalist but I can’t live without distributing, so I’m the Communist. So this power is outside, not inside. Inside to koi power nahin hai. Now what is there in these power – nothing is there. It is for you to now, to understand that this is neither this way nor that way – it is in the center we are; We’re talking about how to bring people to the center to transform them.
无论谁再次掌权，无论是什么，现在必须是一个仁慈的国王，必须是。必须 - 毫无疑问。你知道，这就是掌权 - 我不知道它的含义是什么。有什么 - 他们没有自己的力量。你看，看着我，我拥有所有权力，所以你可以称我为资本家。你可以说，我拥有所有权力，所以我是资本家，但我不能没有分配，所以我是共产党员。所以这种力量在外面，而不在里面。里面到koi power nahin hai。现在这些力量是什么 - 什么都没有。你现在要明白这既不是这种方式，也不是那种方式 - 它是我们的中心;我们正在讨论如何将人们带到中心来改造它们。

Whether they belong to this party or to that party makes no difference – they have to come to the center whether they belong to this country or to that country. Now, this gentleman who spoke to you about TM, nowadays he is in South Africa and in South Africa we have thousands of sahaja yogis – in South Africa – and they are white people. – How long does it take to realize? – Ramadasa was the same question. He said, “Tat shand.” Takes hardly, even a second but you better come to our center and it will happen to you, I’m sure. Already you’re relaxed, if you see it. It is all your own and the best part of it, your heritage. [MARATHI] [MARATHI] [MARATHI] [MARATHI] [MARATHI] [MARATHI] [MARATHI] What is there? Have you any objection seeing that film?
无论他们属于这个政党还是那个政党都没有区别 - 无论他们属于这个国家还是那个国家，他们都必须来到这个中心。现在，这位绅士向你讲述了TM，现在他在南非和南非，我们有数千名霎哈嘉瑜伽士 - 在南非 - 他们是白人。 - 需要多长时间才能实现？ -  Ramadasa是同一个问题。他说，“Tat shand。”几乎没有，甚至一秒钟，但你最好来到我们的中心，它会发生在你身上，我敢肯定。如果你看到它，你已经放松了。这是你自己的，也是最好的部分，你的遗产。 [马拉蒂] [马拉蒂] [马拉蒂] [马拉蒂] [马拉蒂] [马拉蒂] [马拉蒂]那里有什么？有没有人反对看过这部电影？

Better see it, what’s there. After all you’re saints, you should see also the filth. Not Me, annh? I ‘ve had enough of it. [[MARATHI] [HINDI – AAPKE LIYE KHAAS ARRANGE KIYA, EK MINUTE DEKH KE JAO.] [HINDI – DEKH KE JAO, YEH DIKHEGA NAHI AAPKO. DEKH KE JAAIYE TO AAPKO PATA HOGA KYON MAIN YEH BAAT KEH RAHI HUUN – Why we should see? – Annh? – We are not interested in that film. – Theek hai, koi baat nahin.
最好看一下，那里有什么毕竟你是圣徒，你也应该看到污秽。不是我，安？我已经受够了[[MARATHI] [HINDI  -  AAPKE LIYE KHAAS ARRANGE KIYA，EK MINUTE DEKH KE JAO。] [HINDI  -  DEECH KE JAO，YEH DIKHEGA NAHI AAPKO。 DEKH KE JAIAIYE到AAPKO PATA HOGA KYON MAIN YEH BAHAT KEH RAHI HUUN  - 为什么我们应该看到？ - 安？ - 我们对那部电影不感兴趣 - 看，没有言语

[CLAPPING] – Like you have how many days You’ll be here? – Annh? – In Bombay how many days You’ll be here? I’m going early tomorrow to Poona but these people are going to be here. I think seriously you work it out one day maybe you are the people who’ll spread this good news and you will be the people to do some good for this country. See, we need people who feel, feel for Kya kiya jaaye? Aur yeh paisa banane ka dhandha nahin hai. Yeh to Ramdas swami ne [UNCLEAR] [MARATHI] Santon ka lakshan hai. [MARATHI] Jis chhez se logon ko fayada hota hai, jisse benevolence aata hai woh asal cheez hai. Benevolence, otherwise [UNCLEAR] – [MARATHI] You’re not interested to see?
[CLAPPING]  - 就像你有多少天你会在这里？ - 安？ - 在孟买你会在这几天？我明天要早点去Poona但这些人会在这里。我认真地认为你有一天能够解决这个问题，也许你是传播这个好消息的人，你将成为为这个国家做点好事的人。看，我们需要感受Kya kiya jaaye的人们？ Aur yeh paisa banane ka dhandha nahin hai。 Yeh to Ramdas swami ne [UNCLEAR] [MARATHI] Santon ka lakshan hai。 [MARATHI] Jis chhez se logon ko fayada hota hai，jisse benevolence aata hai woh asal cheez hai。仁慈，否则[UNCLEAR]  -  [MARATHI]你没兴趣看？

– No, no. No, no. – Alright. – How many days You’ll be here? – Annh? – In Bombay, how many days You’ll be here? I’m going early tomorrow to Poona but these people are going to be here. I think, seriously you work it out; One day, maybe, you are the people who’ll spread this good news and you will be the people to do some good for this country. See, we need people who feel, feel for this, feel for this country.
- 不，不。不，不。 - 好的。 - 你会在这几天？ - 安？ - 在孟买，你会在这几天？我明天要早点去Poona但这些人会在这里。我认为，认真地说你要解决这个问题;有一天，也许，你是那些传播这个好消息的人，你将成为为这个国家做点好事的人。看，我们需要那些感受到这种感觉的人，感受这个国家。