19840507 Conversation with Sahaja Yogis[与Sahaja Yogis的对话](机器翻译/未校对)

Conversation with Sahaja Yogis, in ashram Le Raincy, Paris, (France), 1984, May 7th

与Sahaja Yogis的对话，在法国巴黎的法兰西，法兰兹，5月7日

[Shri Mataji is working on the Agnya of a Sahaja Yogi]

[Shri Mataji正在研究霎哈嘉瑜伽士的Agnya]

Sahaja Yogi: His father is from Vietnam.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：他的父亲来自越南。

Shri Mataji: Where is he from?

锡吕玛塔吉：他来自哪里？

Sahaja Yogi: Vietnam.

只有瑜珈：越南。

Shri Mataji: Ah.

Shri Matji：呃。

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, there’s so much pressure on Vishudhi.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：母亲，Vishudhi面临如此巨大的压力。

Shri Mataji: Hum?

锡吕玛塔吉：我们？

Sahaja Yogi: Vishudhi Mother.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：Vishuddhi母亲

Shri Mataji: There’re no vibrations coming out.

锡吕玛塔吉：没有生命能量出来。

Hum, better.

哼，更好。

Ah, again. Are you feeling in the hands?

啊，再说一次。你有感觉吗？

Ah! Lao Tze was [inaudible].

啊!老子是[听不清]。

[Laughter].

[笑声]。

Shri Mataji: Well done, you see? It’s coming.

锡吕玛塔吉：干得好，你知道吗？它来了。

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, it’s cool now.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：是的，现在很酷。

He doesn’t know how to thank you for all the things You have done for him.

他不知道如何感谢你为他所做的一切。

Shri Mataji: No, no. It’s your own, it’s your own.

锡吕玛塔吉：不，不。它是你自己的，它是你自己的。

All right. Now you say: ※Mother, you are Lao Tze.§ Just say.

行。现在你说：※母亲，你是老子。只是说。

Again. Again. Again. Again. Again. Again, again. [The Sahaja Yogi says it ten times]

再次。再次。再次。再次。再次。再来再来。 [霎哈嘉瑜伽说十次]

Bast [Hindi; stop]

韧皮[不;停止]

All right? It’s perfect! There’s no thought, no thought in your mind. You’re watching without thinking, can you say that?

好吗？这是完美的！没有想到，没有想到你的想法。你不假思索地看着，你能这么说吗？

You have a bit of Agnya, that thing. How long have you been using spectacles?

你有一点Agnya，那件事。你用眼镜多久了？

Sahaja Yogi: Since ten years.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：十年以来。

Shri Mataji: Left Agnya is caught up. It’s all right, it will work out. It’s perfect now, it started flowing. Take a [?] then it works out. Ah! It’s over there now. It’s your own, work it and you can be.

锡吕玛塔吉：左Agnya被堵塞了。没关系，它会好起来的。它现在很完美，它开始流动。拿一个[？]然后就可以了。啊!它现在在那边。它是你自己的，工作它，你可以。

Now, Tao has said it. Whatever he said the problems are, you’ll feel that comfort.?

现在，陶已经说过了。无论他说什么问题，你都会感到舒适。

You see now, without Realization you can’t do Tao. That state one must have because you have to be a free person. It’s working, it will go all the time now flowing. See now, from his [inaudible] there are, say, go ahead.

你现在看到，没有实现你就不能做道。这个州必须拥有，因为你必须是一个自由的人。它正在工作，现在一直在流动。现在，从他的[音频不清晰]看，有继续。

I think this fellow never told you [inaudible].

我想这个家伙从未告诉过你[音频不清晰]。

Michel Cernay: Shri Mother, when we spoke about acupuncture with Eric, in Rouen, we had an awful Left Swadisthana. Again, when we asked the question: ※May he practice?§ we had a Left Swadisthanan and also about acupuncture itself.

Michel Cernay：母亲当我们在鲁昂谈到针对Eric的针灸时，我们有一个可怕的左Swadisthana。再次，当我们问这个问题：※他可以练习吗？§我们有一个左Swadisthanan和针灸本身。

Shri Mataji: Yes, because, you see, when he treats left-sided people, he catches from them. And the whole of that is going into him, you see. He catches, he doesn’t know how to protect himself. So he’s just caught up. You see, all the psychologist, they have this Left Swadisthana problem. That’s how he has a Left Swadisthana. And once he knows, when he’s authorized he gets well. First, he must get well. He must know, he must become an expert then he can treat.

锡吕玛塔吉：是的，因为，你知道，当他对待左边的人时，他会抓住他们。你知道，整个过程都会进入他的行列。他抓住了，他不知道如何保护自己。所以他刚刚堵塞了。你看，所有心理学家，他们都有这个左Swadisthana问题。那就是他如何拥有一个Left Swadisthana。一旦他知道，当他获得授权他就会康复。首先，他必须康复。他必须知道，他必须成为一名专家然后才能治疗。

Sahaja Yogi: Mataji, would you like to go out first and then-

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：Mataji，你想先出去然后 - 

Sahaja Yogi: After the questions probably.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：问题可能之后。

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, excuse me, there is a problem. Maries’s just gone to Gare de Lyon because Madeleine is there, she has no more money, no more passport and her bag have been robbed.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：母亲，对不起，有一个问题。 Maries *刚刚去了Gare de Lyon，因为Madeleine在那里，她没有钱，没有更多的护照和她的包被抢劫了。

Shri Mataji: What it is?

锡吕玛塔吉：这是什么？

Sahaja Yogini: Madeleine from Switzerland.

Sahaj Yogi：来自瑞士的Mandelai。

Sahaja Yogi: Madeleine from Switzerland got attacked, robbed.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：来自瑞士的Madeleine遭到袭击，被抢劫。

Shri Mataji: Who’s it, Madeline?

锡吕玛塔吉：那是谁，Madeline？

Sahaja Yogi: Madeleine from Switzerland. So she has no more money, no more ticket, no more passport and Marie has gone now to get her.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：来自瑞士的Madeleine。因此，她没有更多的钱，没有更多的机票，没有更多的护照，玛丽现在已经去了她。

Sahaja Yogi: It’s not a problem, we give her money, she goes to Switzerland and gets new papers, it’s all right.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：这不是问题，我们给她钱，她去瑞士并获得新论文，它没事。

Shri Mataji: She can’t go if she has to take a passport.

锡吕玛塔吉：如果她必须拿护照，她就不能去。

Sahaja Yogi: No through France and Switzerland it’s [inaudible].

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：没有通过法国和瑞士，它[听不清]。

Shri Mataji: Madeline is another one. She used to indulge into something very, very funny. Did she tell you about it? So, there was some sort of a- in Sicily, that they were having photographs and a camera. Just switch it off, it’s personal＃.

锡吕玛塔吉：Madeline是另一个。她曾经沉迷于非常非常有趣的事情。她告诉过你了吗？所以，在西西里岛有一些东西，他们有照片和相机。只需将其关闭，它就是个人＃。

[From 10:36 to 11:21. No transcript here]

[从10:36到11:21。没有成绩单]

＃But, as soon as I saw the photograph, I said: ※This is nonsense there§. It is sympathetic. So I gave a bandhan to my own photograph and the ghost is out. She came from there [supraconscient]. So she developed a funny disease, she got a, what did you say about her; Marvin? There, when we met.

＃但是，一看到照片，我就说：※这是胡说八道。这是同情的。所以我把一个bandhan给了我自己的照片，幽灵就出来了。她来自那里[supraconscient]。所以她发展了一种有趣的疾病，她得到了一个 - 你对她说了什么;马文？在那里，当我们见面时。

Marvin: Ah, that old lady. Yes. There’s something very wrong with her. The whole brain, the whole head just confused when she came into the room, I just felt everything swimming in my head. And totally, she made everything confused. Every time she spoke my head just started swimming.

马文：啊，那位老太太。是。她身上有些不对劲。整个大脑，当她走进房间时，整个头脑都很困惑，我只觉得一切都在脑海中游动。完全是，她让一切都搞糊涂了。每当她说话时，我才开始游泳。

Shri Mataji: You see? And I did tell her everything. She got a very [inaudible] and funny disease, you see. A very funny disease she had and she got rid of it in Sahaja Yoga, physically. But mentally, somehow, she still has it. Mental trouble still she has. And that’s why these things are happening to her, very credulous mother, too many. I mean, that means everything can happen with Sahaja Yoga’s photographs. [Unsure]

锡吕玛塔吉：你明白了吗？我告诉了她一切。你看，她得了一个非常[听不清]和有趣的疾病。她有一种非常有趣的疾病，她在霎哈嘉瑜伽中摆脱了这种疾病。但在精神上，不知何故，她仍然拥有它。她还有精神上的麻烦。这就是为什么这些事情发生在她身上，非常轻信的母亲身上，太多了。我的意思是，这意味着霎哈嘉瑜伽照片可以发生一切。 [不确定]

[Laughter].

[笑声]。

Like, you know, this boy of, translating, what’s his name? Methane’s son, he lost his purse. Pick-pockets, pick-pockets. And my photograph was in that. Now the thief went to the police station and he said that: ※I’ve done the greatest sin that I could ever commit. I’ve done many pick-pockets and this was the worse of all.§

就像你知道的那样，这个翻译的男孩，他的名字是什么？甲烷的儿子，他丢了钱包。扒手提包，口袋。我的照片就在那里。现在小偷去了警察局，他说：“我做过了我犯过的最大罪。我做了很多扒手，这是最糟糕的。

[Laughter].

[笑声]。

And they said: ※What?§ He said: ※See, his mother is there and somebody is some child of Mother and I’ve picked up the purse from this one. So you please inform him to come and take it.§ And these people have telephoned to the police in the same area. So they call him and he felt at his feet and he said: ※Please, forgive me. I’ll go to jail, anything you saved, now take this.§ But the police, you see, released him. The thing was like that. Anything can happen by itself. [Unsure]

他们说：※什么？§他说：※看，他的母​​亲在那里，有人是母亲的孩子，我从这个拿起了钱包。所以你请告诉他来接受它。这些人已经在同一地区打电话给警察。所以他们打电话给他，他感觉到了他的脚，他说：※请原谅我。我会去监狱，你保存的任何东西，现在都拿这个。但是，警察，你看，释放了他。事情就是这样。任何事情都可以自己发生。 [不确定]

[Cut in the video.]

[切入视频。]

Shri Mataji: I feel the thing is,

锡吕玛塔吉：我觉得事情是，

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.

只有瑜珈：是的，母亲。

Shri Mataji: It’s not come out that well, like in the original one. It is like a mask, I mean. The original one is very softened.

锡吕玛塔吉：它不是那么好，就像原来那样。我的意思是，它就像一个面具。原来的很软化。

Sahaja Yogi: We have to make one- we’ll take a try, it is a bit up to you, Mother, before we start.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：我们必须做一个 - 我们会尝试一下，母亲，在我们开始之前，这有点取决于你。

Shri Mataji: You see, this is not enough, but I think the vibrations are showing on the face and the hands, you see, the hand also looks so white as if I’ve been fainting or have been crying or something else. His vibrations have made it so white. You see, that’s why.

锡吕玛塔吉：你知道，这还不够，但是我觉得脸部和手部都有生命能量，你看，手也看起来很白，好像我已经昏厥或已经哭了或别的什么。他的生命能量让它如此白皙。你知道，那就是原因。

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, this is because of the photo spark. And with the printing, it will be perfectly exactly like the photograph.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：母亲，这是因为照片火花。随着印刷，它将完全像照片。

Shri Mataji: All right. You see, what I’m saying, he has the vibrations I think, I saw it on the face and on the hand. Have you seen? Look at the hand how white it is, you see. It happens that the whole hand looks white, Sometimes the foot looks white. Sometimes suddenly a white thing comes up here you see all sort of things happen.

锡吕玛塔吉：好的。你看，我说的是，他有我想的生命能量，我看到它在脸上和手上。你见过吗？你看，看看它的白色是多么白。碰巧整个手看起来都是白色的，有时脚看起来很白。有时候突然出现一个白色的东西，你会看到各种各样的事情发生。

Sahaja Yogini: Thyme from the countryside in France.

Sahaja Yogini：来自法国乡村的百里香。

Shri Mataji: What is this? Ah.

锡吕玛塔吉：这是什么？啊。

Sahaja Yogi: Thyme from a country, Mother, in France.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：来自一个国家的百里香，母亲，在法国。

Sahaja Yogi: You would you like to keep it in front of.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：你想把它放在前面吗？

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, that’s why.

锡吕玛塔吉：是的，是的，那就是原因。

Shri Mataji: You see the hands, whatever is the hand is so white, you see. As if I had painted my hand, can you see that? And this becomes then the light, you have seen that.

锡吕玛塔吉：你看到了手，无论手是白色的，你看。好像我画了我的手，你能看到吗？这就变成了光明，你已经看到了。

Sahaja Yogi: Completely white.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：全白。

Shri Mataji: Completely white and as if I had painted my face, painted my hand.

锡吕玛塔吉：完全是白色的，好像我画了我的脸，画了我的手。

[Laughter].

[笑声]。

Sahaja Yogi: All this is done by hand Mother. Even the letters are done by hand.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：这一切都是由母亲手工完成的。甚至这些字母都是手工完成的。

Shri Mataji: Ah, it’s beautiful. I think that’s why the vibrations are shown. It’s possible; possible.

锡吕玛塔吉：啊，它很漂亮。我认为这就是显示生命能量的原因。这是可能的;可能。

Shri Mataji: Now, what is that?

锡吕玛塔吉：现在，那是什么？

Michel C.: This is another of his works. And it’s a project for.

Michel C。：这是他的另一部作品。它是一个项目。

Sahaja Yogi: A poster for Sahaja Yoga. The way of the Spirit.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：霎哈嘉瑜伽的海报。圣灵的道路。

Shri Mataji: It’s done well. What does this indicate?

锡吕玛塔吉：它做得很好。这表明了什么？

Michel C.: It’s the flower of lily. It was the symbol of French monarchy.

米歇尔C：它是百合花。它是法国君主制的象征。

Shri Mataji: What monarchy?

锡吕玛塔吉：君主制是什么？

Michel C.: French monarchy.

米歇尔C：法国君主制。

Shri Mataji: Really?

锡吕玛塔吉：真的吗？

Michel C.: And it is, I think for France, a lotus, the symbol of purity in France.

Michel C。：我想法国的莲花是法国纯洁的象征。

Shri Mataji: It’s the Trinity, is it? Now, I would say that you see, this was used also as for Prince of Wales in England. Lilies.

锡吕玛塔吉：它是三位一体，是吗？现在，我想说你看，这也被用于英格兰的威尔士亲王。百合。

Beautiful. So symbolic.

美丽。如此象征意义。

Michel C.: Could we use it as a symbol for French Sahaja Yoga or is it just a beautiful work?

Michel C。：我们可以将它作为法国霎哈嘉瑜伽的象征，还是仅仅是一件美丽的作品？

Shri Mataji: It can, you see, what I’m saying, you can use it for French Sahaja Yoga, it’s all right. But we can’t use it in India. We have some [??]. You see, people are still- all right, I mean Sahaja Yogis are all right, but if it goes to the other people they’ll say that you see, I am propagating Christianity. If I put anything, says, Swastika here, they say I’m propagating Hinduism, you see, that’s the problem. So, it’s a very good idea.

锡吕玛塔吉：你知道，我可以说，你可以将它用于法国霎哈嘉瑜伽，它可以。但我们不能在印度使用它。我们有一些[??]。你知道，人们仍然没事，我的意思是霎哈嘉瑜伽士没事 - 但是如果它归于其他人他们会说你看，我正在传播基督教。如果我说什么，说，Swastika在这里，他们说我传播印度教，你知道，这就是问题所在。所以，这是一个非常好的主意。

Michel C.: That’s why there is a AUM.

Michel C。：那就是为什么有一个AUM。

Shri Mataji: And here, it should be used, Swastika! Because it means Germany, you see, so it’s not proper to do. This is called as ※samayachara§ according to the time, you have to make it because people are so stupid.

锡吕玛塔吉：在这里，它应该被使用，Swastika！因为它意味着德国，你看，所以它不适合做。这被称为※samayachara§根据时间，你必须做它，因为人们是如此愚蠢。

Michel C.: That’s why we have a Om, Omkara on the-

Michel C。：那就是为什么我们有一个Om，Omkara在 - 

Shri Mataji: Omkara also you did not have. If you have Omakar, they might say: ※This is, why Omkara?§ They don’t mind Omkara?

锡吕玛塔吉：Omkara也没有。如果你有Omakar，他们可能会说：※这就是为什么Omkara？§他们不介意Omkara？

Michel C.: No, they don’t. They don’t know really.

米歇尔C：不，他们不喜欢。他们真的不知道。

Shri Mataji: They don’t know but they might think it’s a propagandising stuff.

锡吕玛塔吉：他们不知道，但他们可能认为这是一个宣传的东西。

Sahaja Yogi: They would say, maybe, it’s Hinduism.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：他们会说，也许是印度教。

Michel C.: It’s written Yoga.

米歇尔C：它写的是瑜伽。

Shri Mataji: It’s written the word ※yoga§ so 每

锡吕玛塔吉：它写的是“瑜伽”这个词

Sahaja Yogi: And here it’s written Shri Mataji.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：在这里写的是Shri Mataji。

[Laughter].

[笑声]。

Shri Mataji: Try as much as possible. It’s not easy.

锡吕玛塔吉：尽可能多地尝试。这是不容易的。

Michel C.: Can we use this for public programs when you are not here in person when we are just-?

Michel C。当我们不在场时，我们可以将它用于公共项目吗？

Shri Mataji: For what? For advertising?

锡吕玛塔吉：为了什么？用于广告？

Michel C.: For advertising, yes.

Michel C。：广告，是的。

Shri Mataji: I don’t think so.

锡吕玛塔吉：我不这么认为。

Michel C.: No.

Michel C。：没有。

Shri Mataji: You see, people are very critical and they’ll find out something somewhere. You should use my photograph for advertising. It’s all right for Sahaja Yogis. Because again it becomes you know, a controversial thing, you see. And people are so stupid in this world, you can’t imagine. For nothing at all, they know how to have a controversy. They don’t want to see, they don’t have a constructive mind, it’s a destructive mind. That is what the trouble is.

锡吕玛塔吉：你看，人们非常挑剔，他们会在某个地方找到一些东西。你应该使用我的照片做广告。它适合霎哈嘉瑜伽士。你知道，再一次，你知道，这是一个有争议的事情。人们在这个世界上是如此愚蠢，你无法想象。一无所获，他们知道如何引发争议。他们不想看，他们没有建设性的头脑，这是一种破坏性的思想。这就是问题所在。

Michel C.: And can we use the other one?

Michel C。：我们可以使用另一个吗？

Shri Mataji: This is all right, it can be, absolutely. Because this is, after all, a living thing and they can’t have an objection to my face.

锡吕玛塔吉：这是可以的，绝对可以。因为毕竟这是生物，他们不能反对我的脸。

[Laughter]. What it is? People are very stupid I think.

[笑声]。这是什么？我认为人们非常愚蠢。

Shri Mataji: Whose sari is this one? Yours? Your sari?

锡吕玛塔吉：这是谁的纱丽？你的位置？你的纱丽？

Sahaja Yogini: Yes.

只有Yogini：是的。

Shri Mataji: It’ll get spoiled. It’s a beautiful sari, isn’t it?

锡吕玛塔吉：它会被宠坏。它是一个美丽的纱丽，不是吗？

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, it’s a very good one.

Sahaja Yogini：是的，这是一个非常好的。

Shri Mataji: So, what’s the interview about, let’s see.

锡吕玛塔吉：那么，采访是什么，让我们看看。

Michel C.: So we have noted down questions, when we could talk, on different things.

米歇尔C：所以我们在不同的事情上记下了我们可以谈论的问题。

Shri Mataji: But somebody should translate it.

锡吕玛塔吉：但有人应该翻译它。

Michel C.: So could You repeat what I have asked you in the car in Rouen?

Michel C。：那么你能重复我在鲁昂的车里问你的事吗？

Shri Mataji: Yes.

锡吕玛塔吉：是的。

Michel C.: Buddha, Shankara, so that it can be [inaudible].

米歇尔C：佛陀，商羯罗，所以它可以[音频不清晰]。

Shri Mataji: Shankara?

锡吕玛塔吉：Shankara？

Michel C.: Shankara, what incarnations were they? Or You can speak like that.

Michel C。：Shankara，他们是什么降世？或者你可以这样说。

Shri Mataji: You see, as I told you that there are incarnations. And now, the incarnations are the ones which are absolutely divine personalities. Like, we can say that first the Power of God separates from God All-mighty and starts creating. That’s the Adi Shakti. That’s the Holy Ghost. Then She creates the Powers of Mahakali, Mahasarasvati and Mahalakshmi. Now, these three Powers then they produce children. And that’s how they have three daughters each and three sons each. And we say that they intermarry, but ※marry§ doesn’t mean the way we human beings understand but they become powers in inter-connecting. Like Shri Vishnu’s sister is Oma, is the- what you call Parvati who is the Kali. And She matches- She is the sister of Shri Vishnu. Like that there’s an interchange. Now, these incarnate on this earth except for Shiva who does not.

锡吕玛塔吉：你看，正如我告诉你的那样，有降世。而现在，降世是绝对神圣的人物。就像，我们可以说，首先上帝的力量与上帝分离，并开始创造。那是Adi Shakti。那是圣灵。然后她创造了Mahakali，Mahasarasvati和Mahalakshmi的权力。现在，这三个权力然后他们生产孩子。那就是他们每个人有三个女儿和三个儿子。我们说它们是通婚的，但是“结婚”并不意味着我们人类理解的方式，但它们成为相互联系的力量。就像Shri Vishnu的姐姐是Oma一样，是你所谓的Parvati是Kali。和她匹配 - 她是Shri Vishnu的妹妹。就像那里有一个交汇点。现在，这些降世在地球上，除了没有的湿婆。

Brahmadeva incarnated (about two or) three times. The first time He incarnated as Ali, the son in law of Muhammad Sahib. Also earlier He was incarnated in India. But outside, I mean to say. And then when He was incarnated in India again as one great Saint. But mostly He does not.

Brahmadeva降世（约两次或三次）。他第一次降世为阿里，穆罕默德萨希的儿子。早些时候，他在印度降世。但在外面，我的意思是说。然后当他再次在印度降世为一个伟大的圣徒。但大部分时间他没有。

So, the only person who incarnates actually in a mere form is Shri Vishnu.

因此，唯一一个以纯粹形式降世的人是Shri Vishnu。

And once only Shri Ganesha incarnated as Lord Jesus. Now, the Devi, the Goddess incarnates as Mahalakshmi many times. Throughout, She has been incarnating as Mahalakshmi or as Mahakali. Ultimately, now She is incarnated as Adi Shakti. All right?

只有Shri Ganesha降世为主耶稣。现在，Devi，女神多次降世为Mahalakshmi。在整个过程中，她一直是降世为Mahalakshmi或Mahakali。最终，现在她成为太初之母的降世。好吗？

Now, these are Divine personalities, absolutely Divine you see. But once, Shri Rama, it is the incarnation of Shri Vishnu, and Sita, She is the incarnation of Mahalakshmi shakti, they, when they came on this earth, they produced two children which we can call as Divine as well as human beings. Because they had special powers that special assistance so that they could become leaders for human beings like the rings [unsure], you see. These two children were called as Lav and?Kush.

现在，这些都是神圣的人物，你看到的绝对是神圣的。但有一次，Shri Rama，它是Shri Vishnu和Sita的降世，她是Mahalakshmi shakti的降世，当他们来到这个世界时，他们生产了两个孩子，我们可以称之为神圣和人类。因为他们有特殊的力量可以得到特殊的帮助，所以他们可以成为人类的领导者，比如戒指[不确定]，你知道。这两个孩子被称为Lav和？Kush。

Lav went, after the death of Shri Rama, to the Caucasus. So the people in Russia are called as Slav. And?Kush?went to China, so the people of China are called as?Kushans. So that’s how these two incarnations which we call as the disciple principle- not the guru principle because the guru principle also incarnates but they are absolute Divine. So they incarnate on this earth as disciple’s principles.

在Shri Rama死后，Lav去了高加索。所以俄罗斯人被称为斯拉夫人。而且？库什？去了中国，所以中国人被称为“库沙人”。那就是我们称之为门徒原理的这两个降世 - 而不是导师原理，因为导师原理也是降世，但它们是绝对的神圣。所以他们在地球上作为门徒的原理而降世。

So, first of all, they incarnated we can say as Lav and?Kush. But they are especially helped by Gabriel, Saint Gabriel and Bhairav, Saint Mickael. Now, these two incarnations also incarnated later on as Buddha and Mahavira. Then, Buddha incarnated on this earth and Mahavira, in the six century again as Shankara. Buddha incarnated as Shankara. Later on, they were again reincarnated on this earth as Mahavira [no], Mahavira incarnated on this earth as Kabira. Also, Khalil Gibran is one of them. Markandeya is the same incarnation. We can say our mister Blake is the same, one of them. So these come on this earth as poets, as devotees of God, of tremendous capacity, to paint, to sing the songs, to talk of God. And also they incarnated as Hassan and Hussein who were the children of ※Fatima bi§ who was the wife of Ali and daughter of Muhammad Sahib. So that’s how they have incarnated again and again on this earth. It’s the disciple principle.

所以，首先，他们降世我们可以说是Lav和？Kush。但他们尤其得到了Gabriel，圣Gabriel和Bhairav，St.Michael的帮助。现在，这两个降世也后来成为佛陀和马哈维亚。然后，佛陀在这个地球和Mahavira上降世，在六世纪再次成为Shankara。佛降世为商羯罗。后来，他们再次在地球上转世，因为Mahavira [no]  -  Mahavira在地球上降世为Kabira。此外，Khalil Gibran就是其中之一。 Markandeya是同一个降世。我们可以说我们的布莱克先生是一样的，其中之一。所以这些作为诗人，作为上帝的奉献者，具有巨大的能力，绘画，唱歌，谈论上帝。他们也是哈桑和侯赛因的降世，他们是阿里的妻子和穆罕默德·萨希的女儿“法蒂玛”的孩子。这就是他们如何在地球上一次又一次地降世。这是门徒的原理。

And we had one Lao Tze. Lao Tze was the Primordial master, an incarnation of the Primordial master, but the principle of disciple was born as Bodhidharma who started Zen. So the Zen people you know more in that, into the paintings and into the poetry and all that. So all these people who are poets of this calibre, who are Realized souls, who paint also with their poetry, and are artists, all of them are from this intermediary type of, you can say, incarnation. All right?

我们有一个老子。老子是原始宗师，是原始宗师的降世，但门徒的原理诞生于菩提达摩，他创立了禅宗。所以你们更了解禅宗的人，进入绘画，进入诗歌等等。因此，所有这些人都是这种口径的诗人，他们是自觉的灵，他们也用他们的诗画，并且是艺术家，所有这些人都来自这种中间类型，你可以说，降世。好吗？

Michel C.: Now, a question about Sahaja Yoga itself. What is the role of Sahaja Yoga in the Last Judgement? What is its place?

Michel C。：现在，关于霎哈嘉瑜伽本身的问题。霎哈嘉瑜伽在最后审判中的作用是什么？它的位置是什么？

Shri Mataji: Sahaja Yoga is, Sahaja Yoga today is the Last Judgement, today. Sahaja Yoga has been brought because ※sahaja§ means spontaneous and always the Realization has been spontaneous. Whether it was at the time of Adinat, whether it was time of Buddha or whether it was time of Christ, it has been always spontaneous. Pantajali also has described it as a spontaneous happening. So, everybody has described a spontaneous thing. The only difference is that before this, the seekers had to cleanse themselves and had to surrender themselves to the gurus and then only gurus would give them Realization.

锡吕玛塔吉：霎哈嘉瑜伽是每天霎哈嘉瑜伽今天是最后的审判。霎哈嘉瑜伽之所以被带来，是因为“霎哈嘉”意味着自发，而且实现始终是自发的。无论是在阿迪纳特时代，无论是佛陀时代还是基督时代，它总是自发的。 Pantajali也将其描述为一种自发的事件。所以，每个人都描述了一个自发的东西。唯一的区别是，在此之前，寻求者必须自我清理，不得不向大师投降，然后只有大师会给他们实现。

But else, your Guru is a Mother. She has now this job of giving you en-masse Realization. It’s her speciality. But en-masse Realization is also part of the plan. The plan is today is of the Last Judgement. And the Last Judgement has to be done by a person who is nothing but compassion. Only a Mother can do the Last Judgement. Otherwise, you see, anybody who is a man, like Christ who crucified Himself, or if it is Shri Krishna, He will just kill you. Everybody will have their own style, only the Mother is the one who can understand the problems of the children with compassion, love and She ＆s the one with very delicate care can take them to the right path of ascent. So, the Mother had to come. So, this is the Last Judgement.

但是，你的导师是一位母亲。她现在的工作就是为你提供全面的实现。这是她的专长。但是，集体实现也是该计划的一部分。今天的计划是最后的审判。最后的审判必须由一个只有同情心的人来完成。只有母亲才能做最后的审判。否则，你会看到，任何一个人，就像基督将自己钉在十字架上，或者如果是克里希纳，他就会杀了你。每个人都有自己的风格，只有母亲是能够理解孩子们的同情，爱和爱的人，而那些非常细心的人可以带他们走上正确的上升道路。所以，母亲必须来。所以，这是最后的审判。

Now, the judgement is not going to be done by some sort of a weigh or anything. It’s the Kundalini. You know yourself and it is you who judge yourself. There’s no need for anybody to judge. You judge yourself, you yourself come and say: ※Mother, my Agnya is caught up, catching. Means I’m egotistical.§ You say that: ※My- Mother, my Agnya is catching, I’m egotistical.§ But you don’t mind saying it because you are out of it, you can judge yourself. So, the Last Judgement is when you separate yourself from yourself and you see yourself and judge yourself. You are the judge and you are the criminal.

现在，判断不是通过某种称重或任何东西来完成的。这是昆达利尼。你了解自己，是你判断自己。没有人需要判断。你判断自己，你自己过来说：※母亲，我的Agnya被堵塞了，抓住了。意思是我自我。你说的那样：※我母亲，我的Agnya正在堵塞，我是自我的。但你不介意说出来，因为你已经离开它，你可以判断自己。所以，最后的判断是当你将自己与自己分开时，你会看到自己并判断自己。你是法官，你是罪犯。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

And you are the correcting point and you are the transformer. You do every thing to yourself.

你是纠正点，你是转化者。你为自己做的每一件事。

Michel C.: Are you going this time to kill Asuras for the last time because in the Hindu mythology, they explain that the Devi, Mother, killed Asuras but they are still incarnated now. So, shall it be the last time?

Michel C。：你这次是去最后一次杀死Asuras，因为在印度教神话中，他们解释说Devi，母亲，杀死Asuras但他们现在仍然是降世。那么，这是最后一次吗？

Shri Mataji: Yes. Now, you see, the thing is if you see the whole development of the stage, the Mother Earth was created and before the Mother Earth was created, there were other stages on which the Divine plan was worked out.

锡吕玛塔吉：是的。现在，你知道，如果你看到舞台的整个发展，地球母亲被创造出来，在地球母亲被创造之前，还有其他阶段可以制定出神圣的计划。

At that stage the Mother Earth was created, the human beings were created. They were brought to this level.

在那个阶段，地球母亲被创造，人类被创造出来。他们被带到这个水平。

Now, it is going to separate again and the rest of it is going to be completely destroyed. But still, there are intermingled you see. They are there because the stage is the same. For example now supposing I throw this down here, but still, it is in the room. Bu, supposing I take this table out then it goes out of here. So that, now at this stage when you are Realized souls, you’ll be all lifted up and the rest will be thrown out. So it’s a complete destruction. No doubt.

现在，它将再次分开，其余部分将被完全摧毁。但是，你看，还有混合。他们在那里因为舞台是一样的。例如，现在假设我把它扔到这里，但仍然，它在房间里。呃，假设我拿出这张桌子然后就离开这里了。所以，现在在这个阶段，当你成为自觉的灵时，你将被全部抬起，其余的将被抛弃。所以这是彻底的毁灭。毫无疑问。

Sahaja Yogi: I have a futuristic question Mother.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：我有一个未来主义的问题，母亲。

Shri Mataji: What is it?

锡吕玛塔吉：这是什么？

Sahaja Yogi: So, what this will be? Will this take- how many duration, will it take a long time?

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：那么，这会是什么？这需要多长时间，需要很长时间吗？

Shri Mataji: No, no, no. Just wait and see.

锡吕玛塔吉：不，不，不。等等看。

[Laughter; applause]

[笑声;掌声]

Michel C.: Close to the same subject, Mother. Why did you perform two times Sahasrara Day in France?

Michel C。：接近同一主题，母亲。你为什么在法国演出两次Sahasrara Day？

Shri Mataji: Ah, that’s it!

锡吕玛塔吉：啊，那就是它！

I don’t want to say it but now, as you have asked Me direct questions I will tell you why that I told that in France human beings have established the doors of Hell. The whole culture they have worked it out in such a way that it’s a straight forward march towards Hell if you come to France. Yes, in Paris, ask anyone, any Sahaja Yogi coming and they’ll go [Shri Mataji puts both hands on Her Sahasrara] So I’m working on that spot where one has to go.

我不想说，但是现在，因为你问我直接问题，我会告诉你为什么我告诉你，在法国，人类已经建立了地狱的大门。如果你来到法国，他们已经以这样一种方式解决了整个文化，这是一种直接向地狱迈进的方式。是的，在巴黎，问任何人，任何Sahaja Yogi都会来，他们会去[Shri Mataji把双手放在她的Sahasrara上]所以我在那个地方工作，我必须去。

Michel C.: Is that the reason for which You say that people didn’t have to be frightened of negativity?

Michel C。：这就是你说人们不必害怕负面的原因吗？

Shri Mataji: Oh, you people, should be very brave because you have to fight them. On the contrary,

锡吕玛塔吉：噢，你们这些人，应该非常勇敢，因为你们必须与他们作斗争。反之，

you people are frightened of vibrations, this, that. No, no, no, no. You must do that, you have to fight, you are the people who have to fight the most of problems. That’s why there are young people here.

你们这些人都会受到震动的恐惧。不不不不。你必须这样做，你必须打仗，你是那些必须解决大部分问题的人。那就是为什么这里有年轻人。

Michel C.: Now, about France, are there self-vibrating regions or nadis in France? Especially, there is always swayambhu [created by itself] or lingaas [image of God] in India. One in Australia.

Michel C。：现在，关于法国，法国还有自振区或纳迪斯吗？特别是，在印度总有swayambhu [自己创造]或lingaas [神的形象]。一个在澳大利亚。

Shri Mataji: Must be, I’m sure, must be there some lingaas like that, must be, coming out of the Mother Earth, must be. We should find out. But, because the Naraka [Hell] is created here, you see, they are all gone with that, all the vibrations are covered. But, Notre Dame, for example, the Deity there is vibrating. And who conceived Notre Dame was a Realized soul, no doubt. There are so many things I feel about it. But, because of the whole thing, just think of the culture, it all works out towards Hell. The whole culture is like that. Now, I mean, it was not so bad, they used to talk of virtues, they used to talk of God, they used to talk of the Spirit, they used to talk of goodness, rightness, nobleness, all that’s finished now. Because the whole thing has been brought down to this point that we all have to go to Hell, en masse, that’s the decision.

锡吕玛塔吉：必须是，我确定，必须有一些类似的语言，必须是，从地球母亲出来，必须是。我们应该找出答案。但是，因为Naraka [地狱]是在这里创造的，你看，他们都已经消失了，所有的生命能量都被覆盖了。但是，就像巴黎圣母院那样，神祇在发送生命能量。毫无疑问，谁构思了巴黎圣母院是一个自觉的灵。我觉得有很多东西。但是，因为整个事情 - 只要想到文化，这一切都会对地狱产生影响。整个文化就是这样。现在，我的意思是，它不是那么糟糕，他们过去谈论美德，他们常常谈论上帝，他们曾经谈论过圣灵，他们曾经谈论过善良，正确，高尚，现在所有这些都已经完成了。因为整个事情已被降到这一点，我们都必须集体去地狱，这是决定。

So, can you imagine the vibrations so, now, [??] is a strong fellow I should say, people are quite strong, but coming to Paris, he did not know what he would have to face. So you people have to be extra strong. As it is, you are quite immune to this.

所以，你能想象现在这样的生命能量，[??]是一个强有力的家伙我应该说，人们都很强大，但是来到巴黎，他不知道他将要面对什么。所以你的人必须更强大。事实上，你对此完全免疫。

Sahaja Yogi: In Belgium, they get immune to this, Mother.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：在比利时，他们对此免疫，母亲。

Shri Mataji: They get immune. You are not to get frightened of bad vibrations.

锡吕玛塔吉：他们得到免疫。你不要害怕坏的生命能量。

If you believe that Sahaja Yoga is very strong, nothing can happen. Your Mother is the strongest of all, if you believe in your Mother, nothing can happen.

如果你相信霎哈嘉瑜伽非常强大，那么什么都不会发生。你的母亲是最强者，如果你相信你的母亲，什么都不会发生。

All right.

行。

Michel C.: Yes, in the same subject. Did you hear about the Three Secrets of Fatima? You know, the revelations that took place in Portugal.

米歇尔C：是的，在同一主题。你听说过法蒂玛的三个秘密吗？你知道，发生在葡萄牙的事件。

Shri Mataji: I don’t believe in that one so much. I think it’s a myth. I have a feeling it’s a myth because those people who have been there, have been very much badly caught up. I don’t know if I have to believe in that, I didn’t go there, but I think it did not exist.

锡吕玛塔吉：我不太相信那个。我认为这是一个神话。我觉得这是一个神话，因为那些曾经去过那里的人，已经被非常严重地追上了。我不知道我是否必须相信，我没有去那里，但我认为它不存在。

Michel C.: So, there is no question. You say-

米歇尔C：所以，毫无疑问。你说-

Shri Mataji: Or could be some spirit who might have done it. It’s a supraconscious thing, could be. But supraconscious things could be correct also. They need not to be always wrong because they see the future. Like a person who got supraconscious talked about Me.

锡吕玛塔吉：或者可能是一些可能做过它的精神。这是一种超自觉的事情，可能是。但是超意识的事情也可能是正确的。他们不必总是错，因为他们看到了未来。就像一个超自觉的人谈论我。

So, they can be true also. And a ※bhoot§ can talk about Me also. So, that doesn’t mean that whatever they say is absolute truth. But for that, there are saints or that comes from God.

所以，他们也可以是真的。并且※bhoot§也可以谈论我。所以，这并不意味着无论他们说什么都是绝对真理。但为此，有圣徒或来自上帝。

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, can I ask you, just a question? During the Mahasahasrara Day, You spoke that we now have reached a new state and we may come back from work and see You in our room, putting Your hand on our Sahasrara. So, how to know if-

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：母亲，我能问你一个问题吗？在Mahasahasrara日，你说我们现在已经到了一个新的州，我们可能会从工作中回来，在我们的房间里看到你，把你的手放在我们的Sahasrara上。那么，如何知道 - 

Shri Mataji: And you actually see Me. You actually see.

锡吕玛塔吉：你真的看到了我。你真的看到了。

[Laughter].

[笑声]。

All right.

行。

Now you have seen in my hand the Sun. You have seen it yourself. Actually, you have seen it. If the camera can see it, why can’t you see it?

现在你已经看到了太阳。你自己看过了。实际上，你已经看过了。如果相机可以看到它，为什么你看不到它？

Sahaja Yogi: It’s a big surprise.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：这是一个很大的惊喜。

Shri Mataji: Ain’t you already surprised?

锡吕玛塔吉：你已经惊讶了吗？

Sahaja Yogi: Oh, yes.

只有Yogi：哦，是的。

[Laughter].

[笑声]。

Michel Cernay: Mother, you said that the river Thames was the Tamasa in England.

Michel Cernay：母亲，你说泰晤士河是英格兰的Tamasa。

Shri Mataji: Tamasa river.

Sri Mataji：Tamasa河

Michel Cernay: That is why the Guru puja was performed there. Are there other rivers connected with such Nadhis in Europe?

Michel Cernay：这就是Guru puja在那里演出的原因。在欧洲还有其他河流与这样的Nadhis相连吗？

Shri Mataji: Actually, you see, I would say that Tamasa river I know because the Dattatreya meditated there. And all your rivers can become Ganges if you people are there. Naturally, they have to be prophets. But the trouble is that you have to become Sahaja Yogis of that level so that you really become Gods. And where the Gods reside [that’s] what the river gets it. Even the bath that you take goes to the river, everything goes to the river and the vibrated water goes there. I’ve taken my bath here, water flows to the river. So, it’s getting vibrated so it becomes Ganges, isn’t it?

锡吕玛塔吉：实际上，你看，我会说Tamasa河我知道因为Dattatreya在那里冥想。如果有人在那里，你所有的河流都可以成为恒河。当然，他们必须是先知。但麻烦的是你必须成为那个级别的霎哈嘉瑜伽士才能真正成为众神。而且神在哪里居住[那个]河流得到它的东西。即使你带的浴室也会去河边，一切都会流到河边，生命能量的水就会流到那里。我在这里洗了个澡，水流到河边。因此，它变得生命能量，所以它变成了恒河，不是吗？

For example, when I came, Thames was not at all vibrating. Now, it vibrates, Thames river vibrates.

例如，当我来的时候，泰晤士河根本就没有生命能量。现在，它生命能量，泰晤士河生命能量。

Moreover, people are not so cautious about it, how to keep it clean, sometimes. But doesn’t matter.

而且，人们对此并不那么谨慎，有时如何保持清洁。但没关系。

For example, the vibrations of the river Ganges at say, at Haridwar, are thousandfold than there are at Benares. Because in Benares people don’t respect it the way it should be.

例如，在哈里瓦（Haridwar），恒河（River Ganges）的生命能量比贝纳雷斯（Benares）的数千倍。因为在贝纳雷斯，人们不应该以应有的方式尊重它。

They put all durt in it, filth in it, and dead bodies so much that it goes and becomes even worse than it was through Calcutta.

他们把所有的污垢都堆在里面，污秽在里面，尸体里的污垢太多了，变得比通过加尔各答更糟糕。

Michel Cernay: We know that some towns are connected with chakras.

Michel Cernay：我们知道有些城镇与脉轮有关。

Shri Mataji: What?

锡吕玛塔吉：什么？

Michel Cernay: Some towns, in countries, are connected with chakras.

Michel Cernay：在一些国家，有些城镇与脉轮相连。

Shri Mataji: [inaudible].

锡吕玛塔吉：[听不清]。

Michel Cernay: No towns but.

Michel Cernay：没有城镇，但是。

Shri Mataji: Yes, of course! I mean they are also. But, you see, what I am saying, let us do, at the most, that France is a part of, we can say, the liver. The liver is in France, we can say, the whole of Europe, we can say, is the liver. A part of it is France, you see. That’s how we can work it out. And I would say, France, we can call it as the gallbladder, could be. Could be the gallbladder because all the poison goes into that.

锡吕玛塔吉：是的，当然！我的意思是他们也是。但是，你看，我说的是，让我们最多的做法是，我们可以说，法国是肝脏的一部分。我们可以说，肝脏在法国，我们可以说整个欧洲都是肝脏。你知道，它的一部分是法国。那就是我们如何解决这个问题。我会说，法国，我们可以把它称为胆囊，可能。可能是胆囊，因为所有毒药都进入了胆囊。

And the gallbladder is the one which digests, you see, all our fats, all our fats, you see. And it’s the Sun there, it’s the Sun chakra is there. That’s the Sun chakra. Gallbladder is the Sun chakra. And the people here, that’s why, suffer from all troubles of the liver because their gallbladder are out of order. Because their gallbladders are overactive, gallbladders are overactive so you get biliousness, you get this vomiting sensation, you get nausea, and all these troubles of the gallbladders.

你知道，胆囊是消化的，你看，我们所有的脂肪，所有的脂肪。它就是那里的太阳，太阳脉轮就在那里。那是太阳脉轮。胆囊是太阳脉轮。这里的人，这就是为什么，因为他们的胆囊出了故障而患上了肝脏的所有麻烦。因为他们的胆囊过度活跃，胆囊过度活跃，所以你会感到胆怯，你会出现这种呕吐感，你会感到恶心，以及胆囊的所有这些麻烦。

Michel C.: A question about Christ. Why did Jesus-Christ hesitate at the holiest Mont before the crucifixion? In the Gospel, they say that when he was alone in the garden of olives, in Jerusalem, when the disciples were sleeping, he said, he hesitated to do the crucifixion and he said ＆if it is not necessary please that I don’t do it’. How is it that there is one moment of big hesitation?

米歇尔C：关于基督的问题。为什么耶稣基督在钉十字架之前在最圣洁的蒙特犹豫不决？在福音书中，他们说，当他独自一人在耶路撒冷的橄榄园里，当门徒们在睡觉时，他说，他犹豫要做被钉十字架，他说，如果没有必要，请不要做我不做它*。怎么会有一个大犹豫的时刻？

Shri Mataji: You see, all these Deities or all these Incarnations have had one chakra to deal with, not seven chakras like Me [Shri Mataji is pointing towards herself]. So, there could be a diffidence on that point because he was born, as you read in the Mahavishnu’s life, you see, as a child, suddenly out of the blue and he didn’t see his father. He’s crying for his Father throughout, and throughout, he cried for his Father. And that’s why, at the time of his crucifixion, he had to think of his Father. Because, always he felt that his Father has to help him, you see, so he depended on his Father. He always talked of his Father, you see, always his fingers like this [Shri Mataji puts her right index straight] always taking help from his Father. So he talked of his Father. [Right index straight]

锡吕玛塔吉：你看，所有这些神祇或所有这些降世都有一个脉轮要处理，而不是像我这样的七个脉轮[Shri Mataji指向自己]。所以，在这一点上可能存在一种不足，因为他出生了，正如你在Mahavishnu的生活中读到的那样，你看，作为一个孩子，他突然突然出现，他没有看到他的父亲。他一直为他的父哭泣，在整个过程中，他为他的父亲哭泣。这就是为什么，在他被钉十字架的时候，他不得不想起他的父亲。因为，他总是觉得他的父亲必须帮助他，你看，所以他依靠他的父亲。他总是谈到他的父亲，你看，总是他的手指像这样[Shri Mataji将她正确的指数伸直]总是从他的父亲那里得到帮助。所以他谈到了他的父亲。 [右指数直]

So, as a son, you have to have a little diffidence because the Father is there, you see, you have to take the help of the Father. So, just to show that, even at the crucifixion, he had to ask his Fathers, both. You see, it’s a very innate relationship between the Father and the Son. Because the Mother asked him to get crucified. So he asked the Father: ※Is it necessary for Me to do it.§

所以，作为一个儿子，你必须有一点点不自在，因为父亲在那里，你看，你必须得到父的帮助。所以，只是为了证明，即使在被钉十字架上，他也必须问他的父亲。你看，它是父与子之间非常天生的关系。因为母亲要求他被钉死在十字架上。所以他问父亲：※我是否有必要这样做。

That’s like, we should also understand that we should ask our fathers whether we should do it or not? Even when he hesitated, Sahaja Yogis should also hesitate and ask him before being suffering.

那就像，我们也应该明白，我们应该问我们的父亲我们是否应该这样做？即使他犹豫不决，霎哈嘉瑜伽士也应该犹豫，并在受苦之前问他。

Michel C.: Is there something else, is there a special protocol to have with Mother Earth, with Shri Bhoomi Devi? Have we something special to do apart from shoebeating?

Michel C。：还有别的东西吗，与地球母亲有什么特别的协议，Shri Bhoomi Devi？除了踩踏鞋之外，我们还有什么特别的事吗？

Shri Mataji: Yes, you see, in India, we touch the feet of Mother Earth before getting up, from the bed, putting our feet there, we touch with the hand and say: ※Oh Mother, forgive us because we are going to touch you with our feet§, you see. But India is different, it’s a Yoga Bhoomi and the Kundalini of the universe is there. But even, if you respect your country, it will be better, because when you respect only, then the Gods are, you see, the Devas dance so you must respect, you must respect your country, it’s very important.

锡吕玛塔吉：是的，你知道，在印度，我们在起床之前碰触地球母亲的脚，从床上，把我们的脚放在那里，我们用手碰触并说：“哦母亲，原谅我们因为我们要去你看，用脚碰触你。但印度是不同的，它是瑜伽Bhoomi和宇宙的昆达利尼。但即便如此，如果你尊重你的国家，它会更好，因为当你只尊重，那么你看，众神是德瓦斯舞，所以你必须尊重，你必须尊重你的国家，这非常重要。

Michel C.: You said during the Mahashiva puja or perhaps Shri Lalita’s puja, that the way between the heart and the Sahasrara was now opened. Is there a relation with the number of English people who came for Sahasrara day this year?

米歇尔C：你在Mahashiva puja或Shri Lalita *的puja期间说过，心脏和Sahasrara之间的路径现在已经打开了。是否与今年参加Sahasrara日的英国人数有关系？

Shri Mataji: [Laughting] Is he a poetic? How was that? English people have to travel quite a lot cause heart circulates, you see. And you will see, whatever happens in England goes all over the world. It is through England the whole circulation is done. It’s a small thing, but the whole circulation goes through England. That’s why I say you must learn English now because English is the language of these people. I had also to learn English, so you can learn English.

锡吕玛塔吉：[笑]他是一个诗意的人吗？怎么样？你知道，英国人必须经常旅行，因为心脏会流传。而且你会看到，无论英格兰发生什么，都会传遍世界各地。通过英格兰，整个流通已经完成。这是一件小事，但整个发行量都要经过英格兰。那就是为什么我说你现在必须学习英语，因为英语是这些人的语言。我还学习英语，所以你可以学习英语。

I never studied English for your information. I never studied English much because in the college school I studied in a vernacular school, in an Indian school, with the language that was my own mother tongue. I did my matriculation in my own mother tongue, Marathi itself. Then I did my Inter Science and little English was taught. And then I did my Medical, there was no English. So I didn’t, but English language is the easiest because it hasn’t got any twist like you have, you see, whatever you say is phonetic, quite phonetic, so it’s easy. I request you that you’d better learn English. [Laughting]

我从未学过英语以获取您的信息。我从未学过很多英语，因为在大学里我在一所印度学校的白话学校学习，使用我母语的语言。我用自己的母语拉马拉蒂进行了预科。然后我做了我的国际科学，并且教了一点英语。然后我做了我的医疗，没有英语。所以我没有，但英语是最简单的，因为它没有像你一样有任何扭曲，你看，无论你说什么是语音，非常语音，所以它很容易。我要求你，你要更好地学习英语。 [Laughting]

Michel C.: Mother, the other question is very [inaudible] it’s about cats and dogs. You spoke sometimes about dogs who were picture of the principle, disciples’ principle. What about cats?

米歇尔C：母亲，另一个问题是[听不清]关于猫和狗的问题。你有时谈到的是那些原理，门徒*原理的狗。猫怎么样？

Shri Mataji: No. No cats. Cats are animal, nothing wrong with them, but they are not- cats are, not cat. But tigers are all right.

锡吕玛塔吉：没有猫。猫是动物，没有任何问题，但它们不是 - 猫不是猫。但是老虎没事。

[Laughter].

[笑声]。

Michel C.: Our flats are too short, Mother [inaudible] we have no space in our flat.

Michel C。：我们的公寓太短了，母亲[听不清]我们公寓里没有空间。

Shri Mataji: Cats, it’s all right for rats. But tigers, you can put if you like [laughter]. And they won’t do anything to you, you’re Realized souls.

锡吕玛塔吉：猫，它对老鼠来说没问题。但老虎，如果你愿意，你可以放[笑]。而且他们不会对你做任何事，你实现了灵魂。

Michel C.: Because we had cats in our ashram, but we would prefer tigers but it’s quite by the neighbours.

米歇尔C：因为我们在我们的灵舍里养了猫，但是我们更喜欢老虎，但它们却是邻居们。

Shri Mataji: [inaudible]

锡吕玛塔吉：[音频不清晰]

I don’ t think they have innate dignity in them because they have lost the power. They’ve lost the power. All right, cats, it’s all right, you can keep it, there’s no harm. But why don’t take a dog also?

我不认为他们有天生的尊严，因为他们已经失去了力量。他们失去了力量。好吧，猫，它可以，你可以保留它，没有任何伤害。但为什么不带狗呢？

Sahaja Yogi: A dog?

只有瑜珈：狗？

Shri Mataji: Yes, why not?

锡吕玛塔吉：是的，为什么不呢？

Sahaja Yogi: Can I ask to you what dog you prefer?

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：我可以问你喜欢哪条狗吗？

Shri Mataji: Pardon?

锡吕玛塔吉：请原谅？

Sahaja Yogi: Can I ask to you what dog you prefer?

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：我可以问你喜欢哪条狗吗？

Shri Mataji: What dog?

锡吕玛塔吉：什么狗？

Sahaja Yogi: What kind of dog?

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：什么样的狗？

Shri Mataji: Alsatian are very good, Alsatian, the one she has.

锡吕玛塔吉：阿尔萨斯非常好，阿尔萨斯，她拥有的那个。

Sahaja Yogi: The one she has.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：她拥有的那个。

Shri Mataji: Beautiful dog Alsatian.

锡吕玛塔吉：美丽的狗阿尔萨斯。

Sahaja Yogi: And what about dogs who are named ※Saint Bernard?§

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：那些被命名为“圣伯纳德”的狗呢？§

[Laughter].

[笑声]。

Shri Mataji: Saint?

锡吕玛塔吉：圣？

Sahaja Yogi: They are great dogs and they live in the Pyrenees.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：他们是伟大的狗，他们住在比利牛斯山脉。

Sahaja Yogi: They are white and＃

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：他们是白人和＃

Sahaja Yogi: Anyone of them will do. Except for the Bulldog.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：他们中的任何人都会这样做。除了斗牛犬。

[Laughter].

[笑声]。

Shri Mataji: Don’t have it, Bulldogs [unsure]. I think they must have been journalists in last life.

锡吕玛塔吉：没有它，Bulldogs [不确定]。我认为他们一生都是记者。

Sahaja Yogi: Or bishops, Mother.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：还是主教，母亲。

[Laughter].

[笑声]。

Shri Mataji: I mean, they don’t have much sense for spirituality, I suppose, these Bulldogs. But all others you’ll find dogs understand vibrations. Horses understand vibrations very much. They understand spirits [dead souls] very well. Horses do. Dogs do also, but cats are not very intelligent I would say.

锡吕玛塔吉：我的意思是，他们对灵性没有多大意义，我想，这些斗牛犬。但是你会发现狗的所有其他人都会理解生命能量。马非常了解生命能量。他们非常了解灵魂[死灵魂]。马呢。狗也会这样做，但我会说猫并不是很聪明。

Michel C.: I read in an Indian text that a kind of munis who could flow, during the Tandava, through that point, and come at the other side.

Michel C。：我在印度文中读到，在Tandava期间，有一种可以流动的市政当局，并且来到另一边。

Shri Mataji: To fly?

锡吕玛塔吉：要飞吗？

Michel C.: Great munis could flow with the universe at the dissolution time eh- through that time.

米歇尔C：在那段时间内，伟大的市政当局可以在解散时间内与宇宙一起流动。

Shri Mataji: Yes, you see, these were the days when they tried to work out to overcome the nature through their Vedas, you see, and to overcome the forces of nature. But today, we don’t have that problem. Our problem is different, those days are over because we are already flying. So now, our objective is how to transform our awareness to the new awareness. That’s our problem.

锡吕玛塔吉：是的，你知道，这些是他们试图通过他们的吠陀来克服自然，你看到并克服自然力量的日子。但今天，我们没有这个问题。我们的问题不同，那些日子结束了因为我们已经飞了。所以现在，我们的目标是如何将我们的意识转变为新的意识。那是我们的问题。

Sahaja Yogi: He has to leave to Brussels, he’s going to Brussels now.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：他必须离开布鲁塞尔，现在他要去布鲁塞尔。

Shri Mataji: He’s going?

锡吕玛塔吉：他要去？

Sahaja Yogi: To Brussels.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：去布鲁塞尔。

Shri Mataji: Really?

锡吕玛塔吉：真的吗？

Sahaja Yogi: He is playing in Belgium. He is going to live for two months there.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：他在比利时打球。他将在那里住两个月。

Shri Mataji: May God bless you. And what about your wife?

锡吕玛塔吉：愿上帝保佑你。那你的妻子呢？

Sahaja Yogi: He is worried Mother.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：他很担心母亲。

Shri Mataji: May God bless you sweet.

锡吕玛塔吉：愿上帝保佑你甜蜜。

Sahaja Yogi: We need to know, maybe, for the beginning, she can stay there.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：我们需要知道，也许，一开始，她可以留在那里。

Shri Mataji: I can’t hear you. My ears are buzzing with Paris now.

锡吕玛塔吉：我听不到你的声音。我的耳朵现在正在巴黎嗡嗡作响。

Sahaja Yogi: [come closer, inaudible]

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：[走得更近，听不清]

Shri Mataji: Does she want to go with him? Where is he going?

锡吕玛塔吉：她想和他一起去吗？他去哪儿？

Sahaja Yogi: To Brussels.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：去布鲁塞尔。

Shri Mataji: Brussels? When?

锡吕玛塔吉：布鲁塞尔？什么时候？

Sahaja Yogi: Tomorrow.

只有瑜伽士：明天。

Shri Mataji: She should go. Two months is too big.

锡吕玛塔吉：她应该去。两个月太大了。

Sahaja Yogi: Yeshri?

只有Yogi：Yeshri？

Sahaja Yogi: In Belgium, there is this big Patricia and Nathalie’s house. Nathalie.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：在比利时，有一个很大的Patricia和Nathalie *的房子。纳塔莉。

Shri Mataji: Not her? Nathalie is going to stay there?

锡吕玛塔吉：不是她？娜塔莉会留在那儿？

Sahaja Yogini: No, no, Nathalie is not staying there, Mother.

Sahaja Yogini：不，不，Nathalie不会待在那里，母亲。

Shri Mataji: [Speaks in Hindi]

锡吕玛塔吉：[用印地语说]

Sahaja Yogini: I don’t know.

Sahaja Yogini：我不知道。

Shri Mataji: Hum?

锡吕玛塔吉：我们？

Sahaja Yogini: [Speaks in Hindi]

Sahaja Yogini：[用印地语说]

Shri Mataji: You want to take your wife with you? Because you’ll be there for two months.

锡吕玛塔吉：你想带走你的妻子吗？因为你会在那里呆两个月。

All right? Nathalie’s house they can stay in?

好吗？娜塔莉*的房子，他们可以留在？

Sahaja Yogi: It’s not very far, say, it’s a hundred kilometres from Brussels.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：距离布鲁塞尔100公里不远。

Sahaja Yogini: Mother, Nabhi is very bad in there.

Sahaja Yogini：母亲，Nabhi在那里非常糟糕。

Shri Mataji: Just a minute, just a minute.

锡吕玛塔吉：一分钟，一分钟。

Sahaja Yogini: Wait a minute.

天然瑜珈：重量分钟。

Shri Mataji: I think best is to talk to Robert. When you, where will you stay in Brussels?

锡吕玛塔吉：我认为最好是和罗伯特谈谈。当你在哪里住在布鲁塞尔？

[The French translator does not understand the question]

[法语翻译不明白这个问题]

Sahaja Yogi: Tonight.

只有瑜珈：今晚。

Shri Mataji: Hum?

锡吕玛塔吉：我们？

Sahaja Yogi: In the centre of Brussels.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：在布鲁塞尔市中心。

Shri Mataji: She can stay with him. Can you?

锡吕玛塔吉：她可以和他在一起。你能？

You can manage with her?

你可以和她一起管理吗？

[The French translator understands ※can you take care of her§]

[法国翻译理解※你可以照顾她吗？]

Sahaja Yogi: Half of the day.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：半天。

Shri Mataji: No, but, I mean, can he afford it?

锡吕玛塔吉：不，但是，我的意思是，他能负担得起吗？

Sahaja Yogi: It’s a small room Mother in a working＃

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：这是一个小房间母亲在工作＃

Shri Mataji: [Speaks in Hindi to the wife.]

锡吕玛塔吉：[用印地语对妻子说话。]

She doesn’t mind. She’s all right. It’s all right.

她不介意。她没事。没关系。

[Speaks in Hindi to the wife.]

[用印地语对妻子说。]

Take her.

带她去。

[Speaks in Hindi to the wife.]

[用印地语对妻子说。]

You’ve got my address?

你有我的地址吗？

Sahaja Yogi: I think she will stay here one week, she will come.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：我想她会待在这一周，她会来。

Shri Mataji: She can come later. All right.

锡吕玛塔吉：她可以晚点来。行。

You go and arrange and then she’ll go. All right, good.

你去安排，然后她会去。好的，好的。

Michel C.: Mother, You spoke about your hair during puja when You comb your hair. Could you speak also about your holy face?

米歇尔C：母亲，当你梳理头发时，你谈到了你的头发。你能谈谈你的神圣面孔吗？

Shri Mataji is laughing.

Shri Mataji在笑。

Michel C.: How it was formed and how this illusion was made.

Michel C。：它是如何形成的以及这种错觉是如何形成的。

Shri Mataji: [Inaudible] I must speak? I think you discover.

锡吕玛塔吉：[听不清]我必须说话吗？我想你发现了。

[Laughter].

[笑声]。

It always changes, isn’t it? How can you describe something that is always changing? And one changing face! You see, the same time people take over what I am saying [unsure]. There are different from others, so it’s a funny face, you know. Differs according to the person, according to the camera, according to the angle, everything changes, what can I do about this face?

它总是在变化，不是吗？你怎么能描述一直在变化的东西？一个变脸！你看，同时人们接管我所说的[不确定]。与其他人不同，所以它是一个有趣的脸，你知道。根据人的不同，根据相机，根据角度，一切都在变化，我该怎么办这张脸呢？

It is better for an artist to describe if he can, I don’t know.

对于艺术家来说，描述他是否可以，我不会知道。

Shri Mataji [to someone]: What happened? Don’t you worry?

Shri Mataji [对某人]：发生了什么？别担心？

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, Serge would like to know about the eleven powers of the Ekadesha Rudras?

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：母亲，Serge想知道Ekadesha Rudras的十一种力量吗？

Shri Mataji: Rudra?

锡吕玛塔吉：鲁德拉？

Sahaja Yogi: The rudra, yes.

天然瑜伽：Rudra，S。

Shri Mataji: I think there’s a big lecture on that. Because it’s a very long thing. We have a complete tape on it, eleven rudras in England which you should get. Otherwise, it will take one hour to explain.

锡吕玛塔吉：我认为那里有一个很重要的讲座。因为它是一件很长的事情。我们有一个完整的录像带，你应该得到英格兰的十一个rudras。否则，需要一个小时来解释。

Shri Mataji: You make pizza here? You make here? You bought it? You bought it.

锡吕玛塔吉：你在这里做披萨？你在这里？你买了吗？你买了它。

Sahaja Yogini: I bought the powder.

Sahaj Yogi：e boouthut powder

Shri Mataji: And you made it yourself?

锡吕玛塔吉：你自己做了吗？

Sahaja Yogini: [Inaudible.]

只有Yogini：[音频不清晰。]

Shri Mataji: I’ll have of this if you have it.

锡吕玛塔吉：如果你拥有它，我会有这个。

Little bit. I must eat.

一点。我必须吃。

If Nathalie has made it, I must have it.

如果娜塔莉成功的话，我必须拥有它。

Sahaja Yogi: How is it possible to open our heart out more to you?

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：你怎么可能向你敞开心扉？

Shri Mataji: You see, the heart is always closed when you doubt or because you have had bad experiences. It’s the problem of the ego and superego, both the things. And the Sahasrara, actually, all these seven chakras emit an aura which covers the heart. So, when these auras are absolutely freely involved, completely integrated, then you must know that the heart is opened.

锡吕玛塔吉：你知道，当你怀疑或因为你有不好的经历时，心脏总会关闭。它是自我和超我的问题，两者都是。而Sahasrara实际上，所有这七个脉轮都发出了覆盖心脏的光环。所以，当这些光环完全自由地参与，完全融合，那么你必须知道心脏被打开了。

Now, Sahasrara is covered with ego and superego, both the things. On one side is your conditioning, another side is your ego.

现在，Sahasrara被自我和超我所覆盖。一方面是你的制约，另一方面是你的自我。

Now, the conditioning can come, say, somebody is attached to Christ, say, for example. It becomes a conditioning. You have not seen Christ, you have not known Christ. Because you are born as a Christian you think that’s the truth [unsure]. Now, you get attached to it. It’s the past, so you can’t see the present. You get attached because you have read Bible, you have read a particular book, you follow a particular style of thinking, so you get attached, it’s all conditioning. Because your mother has said so, because your father has said so, because your society has said so, you’re not a free man. You are conditioned. That’s why the heart can be closed or that you are too egotistical, you have too much ego in you and you cannot open your heart because it says: ※How can Mother be something so great? So why should we accept Her help? We should not after all. What’s wrong with us?§ Like that, you see, these ideas may come.

现在，例如，有人可以接受基督，例如。它变成了一种制约。你没有见过基督，你不认识基督。因为你是一个基督徒，你认为这是真理[不确定]。现在，你得到了它。这是过去，所以你不能看到现在。你得到了依恋，因为你已经阅读了圣经，你已经阅读了一本特定的书，你遵循一种特定的思维方式，所以你得到了依恋，它都是条件。因为你的母亲已经这么说了，因为你父亲已经这么说了，因为你的社会已经这样说了，你不是一个自由的人。你有条件。那就是为什么心脏可能被关闭或者你太自我了，你在自己身上有太多的自我，你无法敞开心扉，因为它说：※母亲怎么能这么棒？那么我们为什么要接受她的帮助呢？毕竟我们不应该。我们有什么问题？§像这样，你知道，这些想法可能会来临。

So for that, first of all, you can find out from yourself what sort of a problem you have, whether it is ego or superego.

因此，首先，你可以从自己身上发现你有什么样的问题，无论是自我还是超我。

If it is ego, then you must try to neutralize it by rationally understand, or logically. You see, Mother, you’ve got photographs. It shows that there are lights falling on Mother. We have seen, in her hands, lights falling out, from the feet lights coming out that She’s something divine and I’m not divine. So there’s nothing to feel mediocre about Her. Just if you surrender.

如果它是自我，那么你必须通过理性的理解或逻辑来中和它。你看，母亲，你有照片。它表明母亲身上有灯光落下。我们已经看到，在她的手中，灯光熄灭，从脚上出来的灯光，她是神圣的东西，我不是神圣的。因此，没有什么可以让她感到平庸。就在你投降的时候。

But if it is from the conditioning, then you should reason it out that this conditioning has made you a slave out of the conditioning.

但是如果它来自条件反射，那么你应该推断出这种条件反射使你成为一个不受条件限制的奴隶。

It is not a lining [unsure] you need to rise up to that. But, the best way is to put yourself like a patient before the photograph. Treat yourself, get well, your Sahasrara will open and your heart will open.

这不是一个[不确定]你需要提升到这一点。但是，最好的方法是在拍照前让自己像病人一样。善待自己，好好相处，Sahasrara会打开，你的心会打开。

But today, the highest thing for knowing your Mother is nothing of the kind [unsure] it’s just devotion. So that [inaudible] devotion you had for Christ, for example, you don’t know whether he looks like the photograph or not, it is imaginary.

但是今天，了解你的母亲最重要的事情就是那种[不确定]它只是投入。所以你对基督的[听不清]的奉献，例如，你不知道他是否看起来像是照片，它是想象的。

So what you do, you look at my photograph and expand your heart and: ※Try to put the photograph in my heart.§ You can say things to you from the photograph, you see. Let’s try to put it inside your heart. Then, many people have tried to [inaudible] so that’s how the heart progress. That’s the easiest way to do. Everything that you imagine or think now is divine, any people, because you are Realized souls, you are the [inaudible].

那么你做什么，你看我的照片，扩大你的心脏，并：※尽量把照片放在心里.§你可以从照片中向你说些什么。让我们试着把它放在你的心里。然后，很多人都试图[音频不清晰]以便*心脏如何进步。那是最简单的方法。你现在想象或想到的一切都是神圣的，任何人，因为你是自觉的灵，你是[听不清]。

Shri Mataji: You want more?

锡吕玛塔吉：你想要更多？

Sahaja Yogi: He would like to know about a person who was very important in his life. Hi sname is- can you repeat it?

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：他想知道一个在他生命中非常重要的人。嗨sname是 - 你可以重复吗？

Another Sahaja Yogi: Ibrahime Muzari

另一个只有瑜伽士：Ibrahime Muzari

Shri Mataji: What?

锡吕玛塔吉：什么？

Sahaja Yogi: There was a man-

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：有一个男人 - 

Sahaja Yogini: Called Ibrahime Muzari.

Sahag Yogini：冷Ibrahimi Muzri。

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, and this man took a part in his education, you know, and he found beside this man a lot of things and found again when we presented him Sahaja Yoga and for meditation. And he would like to know about him.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：是的，这个男人参与了他的教育，你知道，他在这个男人身边发现了很多东西，当我们向他展示霎哈嘉瑜伽和冥想时，他再次找到了。他想知道他。

Shri Mataji: What did he find?

锡吕玛塔吉：他发现了什么？

Sahaja Yogi: It was a man.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：这是一个男人。

Shri Mataji: I know.

锡吕玛塔吉：我知道。

[French Yogis speak together]

[法国瑜伽士一起说话]

Shri Mataji [about the food]: Very good.

Shri Mataji [关于食物]：非常好。

[The French Yogi says in French that it is not a martial art, but there is Zen in it and science.]

[法国瑜伽士用法语说这不是一门武术，但它有禅和科学。]

Sahaja Yogi: It’s a martial art mixed with philosophy and talking about Kundalini and something like that, this man was doing.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：这是一门充满哲学的武术，谈论昆达里尼等等，这个人正在做的事情。

Another Sahaja Yogi: This man was teaching them martial art Mother, some sort of fighting techniques combined with philosophy.

另一个霎哈嘉瑜伽士：这个人教他们武术母亲，某种打仗技巧与哲学相结合。

Shri Mataji: Yes, must be that Karate business.

锡吕玛塔吉：是的，必须是空手道业务。

Sahaja Yogi: No.

只有Yogi：没有。

Shri Mataji: It’s something like that.

锡吕玛塔吉：就像那样。

Sahaja Yogi: He wants to know if he is a Realized soul or not.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：他想知道他是否是一个自觉的灵。

Shri Mataji: Not important. Because Karate is out of begging [unsure?]

锡吕玛塔吉：不重要。因为空手道乞讨[不确定？]

Sahaja Yogi: Begging?

只有瑜伽士：乞求？

Shri Mataji: Out of begging [unsure?]

锡吕玛塔吉：出于乞讨[不确定？]

Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：我不知道。

Shri Mataji: Now, you don’t need anything like that. It was for people who are not Realized souls, not for people who are Realized.

锡吕玛塔吉：现在，你不需要这样的东西。这是为了那些没有实现灵魂的人，而不是那些被认识的人。

Tell them.

告诉他们。

Sahaja Yogi: He wants to know if this man is Realized or not.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：他想知道这个人是否真实。

Shri Mataji: You can see now with your hands.

锡吕玛塔吉：你现在可以用双手看到了。

Sahaja Yogi: What’s his name?

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：他叫什么名字？

Another Sahaja Yogi: Ibrahime Muzari

另一个只有瑜伽士：Ibrahime Muzari

[Shri Mataji takes the vibrations and feels the Left Void]

[Shri Mataji采取生命能量并感受到左空隙]

Shri Mataji: You see, anybody can talk of philosophy. Philosophy, any body can talk, anybody who reads a book can talk. Our Bala used to be a great on philosophy once upon a time.

锡吕玛塔吉：你知道，任何人都可以谈论哲学。哲学，任何人都可以说话，任何读书的人都可以说话。我们的巴拉曾经是一位伟大的哲学家。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

Shri Mataji: If you read any book you can talk. You can talk on Zen, you can talk on Tao, you can talk on Indian philosophy, you can talk on Bible. It’s not difficult. But the experience of Sahaja Yoga today is very, very precious. It does not only give you the experience of Self-realization but the complete opening of everything. The topics and subjects and everything that is needed, it’s all knowledge.

锡吕玛塔吉：如果你读过任何书，你可以说话。你可以谈论禅，你可以谈论道，你可以谈论印度哲学，你可以谈论圣经。这并不困难。但今天霎哈嘉瑜伽的经历非常非常珍贵。它不仅为您提供了自我实现的体验，还为您提供了一切的全面开放。主题和主题以及所需的一切，它都是知识。

And a Realized soul, there are some people who were Realized souls who take to Sahaja Yoga. And when people told them that: ※You are already born Realized,§ they lost their heads. They just [Inaudible] their heads.

一个真实的灵魂，有些人是自觉的灵，他们接受霎哈嘉瑜伽。当人们告诉他们：※你已经出生了，§他们失去了理智。他们只是[听不清]他们的头脑。

And they were lost to Sahaja Yoga. Except for very hight degree of Realized souls like Janaardan Maharaj or this fellow who is from Calicut, called Bhramachari. Except for these people, because they know what I am, there’s no problem. But they too cannot give Realization as you can give.

他们失去了霎哈嘉瑜伽。除了像Janaardan Maharaj或来自卡利卡特的这个名叫Bhramachari的同伴这样的高度实现的灵魂。除了这些人，因为他们知道我是什么，没有问题。但他们也无法给予实现，因为你可以给予。

You know, one person who met Me- who was in the second trip [in India]? Second trip. We went to a village in a, in Kolapur. Lots of people came from all over. The man who arranged that program out of 21 villages, people said, that man went to one of them [Realized Guru]. And they told him, you have to do this cleansing, that cleansing, this, that. Never gave him Realization. And a year before, this man came to Me and got Realization. He was surprised: ※And all these days, I’ve been doing all the things he told me, I did this, I did that, I eat this food and I said this mantra, everything, I never got Realization for fourteen years!§ He fasted, he did all kinds of things for him, he never got Realization.

你知道吗，有一个遇见我的人 - 在印度的第二次旅行中？第二次旅行。我们去了科拉普尔的一个村庄。很多人都是从各地来的。那个人在21个村庄安排了那个节目，人们说，那个人去了其中一个[Realized Guru]。他们告诉他，你必须做这个清洁，清洁，这个，那个。从未给过他实现。一年前，这个男人来到我身边并获得了实现。他很惊讶：※所有这些天，我一直在做他告诉我的所有事情，我这样做，我做到了，我吃了这些食物，我说这个口头禅，一切，我从未实现过十四年！ §他禁食，他为他做了各种各样的事情，他从来没有实现过。

So he went to this guru and asked him: ※Why? I’ve been doing what you told me for fourteen years and just like that Mother gave me Realization.§ So he said: ※She’s Adi Shakti, how can I give you Realization just like that!§ And then some Sahaja Yogis are asking that: ※How is it, Mother, that we can give Realization and why can’t he?§Because I have given you Realization myself [unsure]. Not only that, but I am in your heart because you always use my photograph. But he does not use my photograph while I gave him Realization. So that’s why he cannot. He knows that I’m Adi Shakti. But he does not meditate before my photograph. But this is only for Sahaja Yogis, it’s not to be told to others. I don’t want him to feel bad because he is really an evolved soul. He’s actually John the Baptist himself born again.

所以他去了这位大师并问他：※为什么？我已经做了你告诉我十四年的事情，就像母亲给我的实现一样。所以他说：※她是太初之母，我怎么能给你这样的实现！§然后一些霎哈嘉瑜伽士是问：如何，母亲，我们可以给予实现，为什么不能？§因为我自己给了你实现[不确定]。不仅如此，我在你心中，因为你总是使用我的照片。但是当我给他实现时，他没有使用我的照片。这就是为什么他不能。他知道我是太初之母。但他在拍照前没有打坐。但这只适用于霎哈嘉瑜伽士，不能告诉别人。我不希望他感到难过，因为他真的是一个进化的灵魂。他实际上是施洗约翰本人。

Sahaja Yogi: What are the three Powers of Mahalakshmi, Mahasarasvati, Mahakali?

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：Mahalakshmi，Mahasarasvati，Mahakali的三个力量是什么？

Shri Mataji: What are the Powers? Of these three Deities?

锡吕玛塔吉：权力是什么？这三个神祇？

Tremendous!

巨大！

[Laughter?; applause]

[笑声？;掌声]

Shri Mataji: But Mahakali Power, you see, is comfort for you and to your [inaudible] That means She fulfils your desire. All your desires are fulfilled by Her, Ma.

锡吕玛塔吉：但是Mahakali Power，你看，对你和你的[音频不清晰]感到安慰，这意味着她满足了你的愿望。你的所有欲望都由她，马完成。

Then Mahasarasvati Power. She gives you knowledge. Why not?[Unsure] by which you can conceive you can talk to them. So many journalists asked me: ※Are your disciples all scholars?§ I said: ※No. Of course, in the West, we have many scholars but in India that was the ordinary [inaudible] ※

然后是Mahasarasvati Power。她给你知识。为什么不呢？[不确定]你可以设想你可以跟他们说话。很多记者都问我：※你的弟子都是学者吗？§我说：※不。当然，在西方，我们有很多学者，但在印度，这是普通[音频不清晰]※

They said: ※They all talk like scholars.§

他们说：※他们都像学者一样说话。

So, through the Mahasarasvati Power, you get the knowledge, the gnosis.

所以，通过Mahasarasvati Power，你可以获得知识，即知识。

And by the Mahalakshmi Power you get redeemed, you redeem others and you get redeemed, you get evolved. And you become the truth.

通过Mahalakshmi Power，你得到赎回，你赎回别人，你得到赎回，你就会得到进化。而你就成了事实。

So, you see, by Mahakali Power, you desire. By Mahasarasvati Power, you act and achieve. And by Mahalakshmi Power, you become. But there are so many powers that are like this, now say, how does She fulfill your desire?

所以，你看，Mahakali Power，你想要的。通过Mahasarasvati Power，您可以采取行动并实现目标。通过Mahalakshmi Power，你成为了。但是有很多这样的力量，现在说，她如何实现你的愿望？

There was a lady who had a big problem for seven years and she wrote a letter to Me on Gavin’s service. And Gavin didn’t give Me the letter, he forgot for two days. And she telephoned after two days, I didn’t even receive the letter. that: ※Somehow, all my problems are solved, don’t tell Shri Mataji about it.§

有一位女士七年来一直遇到大问题，她在Gavin *的服务上给我写了一封信。加文没有给我这封信，他忘记了两天。两天后她打来电话 - 我甚至没收到这封信。那个：※不知何故，我所有的问题都解决了，不要告诉Shri Mataji。

It is very simple to understand that when the child is to be born, the mother, when she conceives, she gets the milk in her breast, automatically. But there must be a great mechanism to do this, isn’t it? Tremendous and efficient one. And how to explain it to human being?

很容易理解，当孩子要出生时，母亲，当她怀孕时，她会自动将乳汁放入乳房。但是必须有一个很好的机制来做到这一点，不是吗？非常高效的。以及如何向人类解释它？

It is too quick. They say before you put your blink, before the blink it can done. ※Tatkshane§ that moment. That it starts ※tatkshane§ that moment.

它太快了。他们说，在你眨眼之前，眨眼之前它就可以完成。 ※Tatkshane§那一刻。它开始※tatkshane§那一刻。

But if the desire is nonensical, it’s not very good [?]. You can see in your own life. Like Gregoire had his second child, this Niranjana. And when she was only six months of pregnancy, she started bleeding profusely. The doctors said: ※You can’t save the child at all.§ And it so happened that he came to the telephone and he told Me: ※Mother, we are going to loose the child the doctor has said.§ About 2 o’clock in the night he telephoned. And when he went back the doctor has said: ※A miracle has happened, the bleeding has stopped.§ They could’nt believe it. And Niranjana is born.

但如果欲望是非语言的，它就不是很好[？]。你可以在自己的生活中看到。就像Gregoire有他的第二个孩子，这个Niranjana。当她怀孕六个月后，她开始大量出血。医生说：※你根本不能拯救孩子。§发生这样的事情，他来到电话，他告诉我：※母亲，我们要把医生说的那个孩子弄松。关于2 o *他打电话的那个晚上的时钟。当他回去时，医生说：“奇迹已经发生，流血已经停止。”他们无法相信。而且Niranjana诞生了。

Sahaja Yogi: Many stories from Gregoire, Mother. He told us once he was in Vienna and we had a puja and he was asking You: ※Why should the girl put the kumkum on your head?§ And you told him: ※All right, you can try.§So he stood up and tried to reach You and fell down somewhere.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：来自Gregoire的许多故事，母亲。他告诉我们，一旦他在维也纳，我们有一个崇拜，他问你：※为什么女孩会把kumkum放在你头上？§你告诉他：※好吧，你可以试试.§所以他站起来并试图联系你并摔倒在某个地方。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no. He said: ※Why the ladies only have to put?§ I said: ※All right, you can try.§ He came forward, you see, jealous of the ladies. He came forward and he fell down.§Why?§

锡吕玛塔吉：不，不，不，不。他说：※为什么女士们只需要放？§我说：※好吧，你可以试试。他出面了，你看，嫉妒女士们。他往前来，摔倒了。§为什么？§

Everything has to be done the way is right to things. Like, if you give Me flowers then I would say: ※All right, keep the flowers in the night in my room. And if you give, you should not keep them anywhere but in my room if you have given them to Me because there is a right to the Ganas on the flowers at night. They want to enjoy the flowers. Ha, that’s how you have to do it. But I don’t want flowers [inaudible] I mean this is the right, I have to give them their right and I have to give you your right and the right of the ladies and the right of all the children. I have to bow to the rights. You have so many rights I have none. I’ve only duties to be performed.

一切都必须按照事情的方式完成。就像，如果你给我花，那么我会说：※好吧，在我房间的夜晚保持鲜花。如果你放弃，你不应该把它们留在我的房间里，如果你把它们交给我，因为晚上有权在花上加Ganas。他们想要享受鲜花。哈，那是你必须要做的。但是我不想要花[听不清]我的意思是这是正确的，我必须给他们权利，我必须给你权利和权利，所有孩子的权利和权利。我不得不屈服于这些权利。你有这么多的权利，我没有。我只履行职责。

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, many futuristic questions are there.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：母亲，有很多未来的问题。

Mother, will we be able later on to have another vision of the world even of ourselves?

母亲，我们以后能否对自己有另一种世界观？

Shri Mataji: Of course! That’s your right.

锡吕玛塔吉：当然！那是你的权利。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

Sahaja Yogi: As seekers, we are anxious to discover your mysteries.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：作为寻求者，我们渴望发现你的奥秘。

Shri Mataji: You are going to have it, that’s your right. How many will be there? God only knows.

锡吕玛塔吉：你会拥有它，那是你的权利。会有多少人？只有上帝知道。

Sahaja Yogi: He wants to know if astrology has still a meaning after Realization?

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：他想知道占星术在实现之后是否还有意义吗？

Shri Mataji: Of course, yes. Astrology has but it’s not important because you have gone beyond stars. What are stars? Nothing but what’s in your chakras, you see. If you correct your chakras the stars can be corrected. You know the stars that are related to chakras?

锡吕玛塔吉：当然，是的。占星术有，但它并不重要，因为你已经超越了星星。什么是明星？你知道，你的脉轮中只有什么东西。如果你纠正你的脉轮，可以纠正星星。你知道与脉轮有关的恒星吗？

He doesn’t know.

他不知道。

Sahaja Yogi: Maybe he knows.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：也许他知道。

Shri Mataji: I have given a lecture on that also, the stars.

锡吕玛塔吉：我也和星星一起做过演讲。

Like the Mangals, what you call-

像Mangals一样，你所说的 - 

Sahaja Yogi: Mars is Mooladhara.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：火星这个基础知识

Shri Mataji: Mars is Mooladhara, like that. Swadisthana is.

锡吕玛塔吉：火星是Mooladhara，就像那样。 Swadisthana是。

Sahaja Yogi: Mercure.

只有瑜珈：美居。

Shri Mataji: Swadisthana is Mercury. And Jupiter.

锡吕玛塔吉：Swadisthana是水星。还有木星。

Sahaja Yogi: Jupiter is for the Nabhi.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：木星是为了Nabhi。

Shri Mataji: For the Nabhi. Venus is there?

锡吕玛塔吉：对于肚脐金星是这个Theray？

Sahaja Yogi: Venus for Anahata.

只有瑜伽士：Anahata的维纳斯。

Shri Mataji: Venus, yes.

锡吕玛塔吉：维纳斯，是的。

Sahaja Yogi: Vishudhi, Saturne.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：Vishuddhi，Saturne

Shri Mataji: Saturn.

锡吕玛塔吉：土星。

Sahaja Yogi: Agnya, the Sun.

只有Yogi：Agnya，太阳。

Shri Mataji: And here [Brahmarandhra]

锡吕玛塔吉：在这里[Brahmarandhra]

Sahaja Yogi: The Moon.

只有瑜珈：月亮。

Shri Mataji: And you know the, that’s Guru, and you know all the- what you call- gems, gems.

锡吕玛塔吉：你知道那个大师，你知道所有你所谓的 - 宝石，宝石。

Sahaja Yogi: No, I want to know.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：不，我想知道。

Shri Mataji: Now, you know? Let’s see. I’ve told all about it. Let’s see. Now the first is the Mangala, means the Mooladhara. For that is, Hop! What you call- these gems I’m very bad at it.

锡吕玛塔吉：现在，你知道吗？让我们来看看。我告诉了所有人。让我们来看看。现在第一个是Mangala，意思是Mooladhara。就是这样，跳！你叫什么 - 这些宝石我很擅长。

Sahaja Yogis: Rubis.

只有瑜伽士：Rubis。

Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no. The one you get it in Italy very [inaudible]

锡吕玛塔吉：不，不，不，不。你在意大利得到的那个非常[音频不清晰]

Sahaja Yogis: Topaz.

只有瑜伽士：黄玉。

Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no. Coral. Coral is the colour of Shri Ganesha. All right? Now, let’s see. The second one is the Buddha, for Buddha is the yellow topaz we call it. But we call it actually, Guru, we call it a guru’stone. Topaz is a little bit a cheap stone but it is something like that, it’s a better stone. A shining, nice yellow stone it is.

锡吕玛塔吉：不，不，不，不。珊瑚。珊瑚是Shri Ganesha的颜色。好吗？现在，让我们看看。第二个是佛陀，因为佛陀是我们称之为的黄色黄玉。但我们实际上称之为Guru，我们称之为古茹*石头。黄玉有点便宜，但它就是这样的东西，它是一块更好的石头。它是一块闪亮的，漂亮的黄色石头。

And the third one is for the Nabhi is what you call emerald.

第三个是Nabhi就是你所说的祖母绿。

And for the heart is the ruby. And for the Vishudhi is the-

因为心脏是红宝石。而对于Vishudhi来说 - 

Sahaja Yogis: Sapphire

只有瑜伽士：蓝宝石

Shri Mataji: Sapphire, blue sapphire. And for this [Shri Mataji shows her Agnya] the diamond and this [Shri Mataji shows her Sahasrara] the pearls.

锡吕玛塔吉：蓝宝石，蓝色蓝宝石。为此[Shri Mataji展示她的Agnya]钻石和这个[Shri Mataji展示她的Sahasrara]珍珠。

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, what is about the three planets Pluto, Uranus and Neptune?

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：母亲，冥王星，天王星和海王星三大行星是什么？

Shri Mataji: Uranus and Neptune are-

锡吕玛塔吉：天王星和海王星 - 

Sahaja Yogi: And Pluto.

只有Yogi：和冥王星。

Shri Mataji: Actually, Uranus and Neptune are the Guru tattva Shishya [unsure]. So we, they are like, I mean the disciple tattvas. Uranus and Neptune are disciples.

锡吕玛塔吉：实际上，天王星和海王星是Guru tattva Shishya [不确定]。所以我们，他们就像，我的意思是门徒tattvas。天王星和海王星都是门徒。

Sahaja Yogi: And Pluto?

只有瑜珈：和冥王星？

Shri Mataji: Pluto is the Spirit in the heart. Pluto came on this earth with my birth.

锡吕玛塔吉：冥王星是心中的灵魂。我的出生冥王星来到这个世界上。

Sahaja Yogi: The significance of the Astrological signs Mother.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：占星术的重要性标志着母亲。

Shri Mataji: Yes, it is a, I was born on the zero hour so I have no sign. But one can have a sign and sign helps. For example, if you are a Pisces, you are a seeker. If you are an Aries, you are a seeker. But only Gemina is a person rather difficult especially if they are men, women are good, Gemina, men are sometimes compromised. Who is Gemina? They have problems in the beginning. In the beginning, they have problems, Gemina. They have, they have lots of problems. Gemina they have problems. Taurus is another one for girls, woman Taurus. Who is Taurus? Are there some women here?

锡吕玛塔吉：是的，它是一个，我出生在零时，所以我没有任何迹象。但是人们可以有一个标志和标志帮助。例如，如果你是双鱼座，你就是一个寻求者。如果你是白羊座，你就是寻求者。但只有Gemina是一个相当困难的人，特别是如果他们是男性，女性是好的，Gemina，男性有时会受到损害。谁是双子座？他们一开始就有问题。一开始，他们有问题，Gemina。他们有，他们有很多问题。双子座他们有问题。金牛座是另一个女孩，女人金牛座。谁是金牛座？这里有些女人吗？

Sahaja Yogi: He is Taurus.

只有瑜伽士：他是金牛座。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

Shri Mataji: Not men, women. Women Taurus, not men.

锡吕玛塔吉：不是男人，女人。女金牛座，而不是男人。

Taurus women?

金牛座的女人？

Obstinate.

顽固。

What’s your star? What is your sign?

你的明星是什么？你的标志是什么？

Sahaja Yogini: Sagittarius and the ascendant is Gemini.

Sahaja Yogini：射手座和方兴未艾是双子座。

Shri Mataji: Sagittarius? You should be all, this is straightforward. I think she’s done all these things so she’s got a little bit of trouble [Shri Mataji touches her ego] but otherwise, it’s all right.

锡吕玛塔吉：射手座？你应该是全部，这很简单。我认为她做了所有这些事情所以她有点麻烦[Shri Mataji触动她的自我]但是否则，它没事。

Sagittarius is very good.

射手座非常好。

Sahaja Yogi: He wants to know about Libra.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：他想知道天秤座。

Shri Mataji: Very good, Libra. Very good Sahaja Yogis, Libra.

Sri Mataji：非常好，天秤座。尤里，在天秤座的帮助下。

Cancer, very good. My ascendant is Cancer. Actually, I was born on the Tropic of Cancer. Mecca is on that and Chindwara where I was born is also there. Very few cities are on the Tropic of Cancer. Cancer is the sign of the Mother. So, the ascendant is Cancer they said, but they can’t locate Maya- I mean, because of that, ascendant also changes because of Mahamaya in Gemina. According to Indian thing, Mahamaya has to be Gemina because She plays around, double roads. We will have thousand roads! So that means that.

巨蟹座，非常好。我的方兴未艾是巨蟹座。实际上，我出生在北回归线上。麦加就在那里，我出生的Chindwara也在那里。很少有城市在北回归线上。癌症是母亲的标志。因此，他们所说的上升就是巨蟹座，但他们无法找到玛雅 - 我的意思是，因为这一点，上升也因为双子座的玛哈玛亚而改变。根据印度的事情，Mahamaya必须是Gemina，因为她玩弄双路。我们将拥有数千条道路！所以这意味着。

But surprisingly, the signs are according to Chinese, it is in twelve years they change. According to English, all the Sun style, I mean what we call this, we call as Sun style, Sun, based on Sun, they change it every month. But according to Indian style, they change every two hours, every two hours, about two hours. So, it is much subtler because it is according to the Moon, you see. So, according to the signs, also I’ve seen that Indians have more sort of spiritual aspects, very spiritual aspects of the whole thing. My horoscope, you read the one that was done through Indians style?

但令人惊讶的是，这些迹象是根据中国人的说法，它在十二年后就会发生变化。根据英语，所有的Sun风格，我的意思是我们所说的，我们称之为Sun风格，Sun，基于Sun，他们每个月都会改变它。但根据印度风格，他们每两小时更换一次，每两小时一次，大约两小时。所以，它更微妙，因为它是根据月亮，你看。因此，根据迹象，我也看到印度人有更多的精神方面，整个事物的精神方面。我的星座，你读过通过印第安人风格完成的那个吗？

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, it’s very much different＃ all your spiritual aspects and your qualities. This is very looking-

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：是的，它与你的所有精神方面和你的品质完全不同。这非常期待 - 

Shri Mataji: This is Indian style but that’s a special style also. We have two. We have a general Indian style. But for incarnations, to find out the incarnations, there’s a spiritual style called as the Janmapatrik [unsure]每 I’ve forgotten the name- and through that style you can find out an incarnation. And this is the one they have done. You read that in Nirmala Yoga?

锡吕玛塔吉：这是印度风格，但也是一种特殊的风格。我们有两个。我们有一般的印度风格。但是对于降世，找出降世，有一种被称为Janmapatrik [不确定]的精神风格 - 我已经忘记了这个名字 - 通过这种风格，你可以找到一个降世。而这就是他们所做的。你在Nirmala瑜伽中读到了吗？

Sahaja Yogis: Yes, yes.

只有瑜伽士：是的，是的。

Michel C.: He would know as Gemini is Mahamaya, what are the other signs?

米歇尔C：他会知道双子座是Mahamaya，其他迹象是什么？

Shri Mataji: You have all the twelve stars signs in Me. All the twelve signs in Me. And I vision [unsure] the way I like, so you see it is, all the signs are there. Every sign has a divine aspect. And all those divine aspects are present in Me so they act as such. Gemina, when it becomes a divine aspect, it becomes Mahamaya.

锡吕玛塔吉：你有我的所有十二颗星星。我的所有十二个星座。而且我不确定我喜欢的方式，所以你看到它，所有迹象都在那里。每个星座都有神圣的面貌。所有这些神圣的方面都出现在我身上，所以他们就是这样。 Gemina，当它成为一个神圣的方面，它变成Mahamaya。

You must have read in the description of the Goddess ※atisaumya, ati raudrayai§ [the One who is both very mild and terrific. In Devi Mahatmya, the fifth song]. You see, She’s the mightest of all nobody can be milder than Her, gentler than Her and extremely terrific, you see? So both extremes are there. It is because of that, you see, one has to be because if I contain everything I have to have all the extremes in Me.

你必须阅读女神的描述※atisaumya，atiraudrayai§[一个非常温和和极好的人。在Devi Mahatmya，第五首歌]。你看，她是最轻的，没有人比她更温和，比她更温和，你看得极其可怕？所以两个极端都在那里。正因为如此，你看，一个人必须是因为如果我包含一切，我必须拥有我的所有极端。

Michel C.: Could you give the correspondences of the Deities with each sign?

米歇尔C：你能用每个标志给出神祇的通信吗？

For example, which Deity is related with Libra or?

例如，哪个神与天秤座有关系？

Shri Mataji: Libra is guru tattva, the balance. And Shri Krishna is, Shri Krishna is§shan§ is what you call, Saturn. He is Saturn and what He is in the thing, is what you call Scorpio.

锡吕玛塔吉：天秤座是古鲁塔特瓦，平衡。而Shri Krishna就是，Shri Krishna是§shan§就是你所说的土星。他是土星和他所处的东西，就是你所说的天蝎座。

Sahaja Yogi: What is Leo?

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：什么是狮子座？

Shri Mataji: Leo is ※Simha Rashi§ [Lion, zodiac sign], Leo is ※Simha Rashi§ is Hanuman.

锡吕玛塔吉：Leo是※SimhaRashi§[狮子，星座]，Leo是※SimhaRashi§是Hanuman。

Hanuman, that’s why you’re driving Me! My father was Leo, my father was Leo. Very generous. Spirituality, Leos are very good, it’s just they settle down, no question. I mean there’s no doubt in the head, never he doubts! For spirituality, Leos are very good.

哈努曼，那就是你为什么要开车送我！我的父亲是狮子座，我的父亲是狮子座。非常慷慨。灵性，青少狮非常好，只是他们安定下来，毫无疑问。我的意思是*毫无疑问在头脑中，从不怀疑！对于灵性，青少狮非常善良。

Now, who is Leo with us here. You are Leo?

现在，Leo和我们一起在这里。你是狮子座？

Scorpios are very good people, very good.

天蝎座是非常好的人，非常好。

Sahaja Yogi: Djamel is Scorpio?

只有Yogi：Djamel是天蝎座？

Shri Mataji: Djamel is Scorpio. I don’t know about Gavin. What is Gavin? Gregoire is Cancer.

锡吕玛塔吉：Djamel是天蝎座。我不知道加文。什么是加文？格雷瓜尔是巨蟹座。

What is Gavin? You are Leo?

什么是加文？你是狮子座？

Sahaja Yogi: Libra.

只有瑜珈：天秤座。

Shri Mataji: You are Libra.

锡吕玛塔吉：你是天秤座。

Sahaja Yogi: Mickael is a Scorpio.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：Mickael是天蝎座。

Shri Mataji: What he is?

锡吕玛塔吉：他是什么人？

Sahaja Yogi: Scorpio.

只有瑜珈：天蝎座。

Shri Mataji: Ah, Scorpio, very good. Gavin is [?]. Men Scorpio are very good. Among women, the Cancer are very good, Gemini are very good. Danya is Gemina. Very good.

锡吕玛塔吉：啊，天蝎座，非常好。加文是[？]。男士天蝎座非常好。在女性中，巨蟹座非常好，双子座非常好。 Danya是Gemina。很好。

Sahaja Yogi: They were so happy Danya and [?].

只有Yogi：他们是如此高兴Danya和[？]。

Shri Mataji: But Taurus, men and women are troublesome.

锡吕玛塔吉：但金牛座，男人和女人都很麻烦。

Nick, Nick is a Taurus, very troublesome. Nowadays, he has become a racialist. He doesn’t allow his wife to speak Marathi. He doesn’t allow her to support Maharashtrians, suddenly he has become an English man.

尼克，尼克是金牛座，非常麻烦。如今，他已成为一名种族主义者。他不允许他的妻子说马拉地语。他不允许她支持马哈拉施特拉邦人，突然他成了英国人。

Sahaja Yogi: Really?

只有Yogi：真的吗？

Shri Mataji: The wife is shocked.

锡吕玛塔吉：妻子感到震惊。

[Sahaja Yogi sings a song..]

[只有Yogi唱一首歌..]

Shri Mataji: Very nice.

锡吕玛塔吉：非常好。

She’s such a good girl. She says that: ※This fellow doesn’t allow me to talk to anyone. She’s not at all correcting, he doesn’t meditate. He doesn’t want me to talk to any lady and he doesn’t allow me to speak Marathi.§

她是个好女孩。她说：※这个家伙不允许我跟任何人说话。她根本没有纠正，他没有打坐。他不想让我和任何一位女士交谈，他也不允许我说马拉地语。

[Cut in the video and audio]

[切入视频和音频]

Shri Mataji: You must be serious you see, because you say about cheating, the way these gurus make full of people.

锡吕玛塔吉：你必须认真对待，因为你说的是​​作弊，这些大师们充满了人的方式。

Sahaja Yogini: But it was not-

Sahaja Yogini：但它不是 - 

Shri Mataji: It worked out.

锡吕玛塔吉：它成功了。

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, I mean, it was a show. I didn’t tell really what I was doing. But I was, I think ＃

Sahaja Yogini：是的，我的意思是，这是一个节目。我并没有真正说出我在做什么。但我认为，我认为＃

Sahaja Yogi: You see Mother, I think she feels that she has been, she has heard that dancing should be secret dancing only for the Divine. And she is wondering if she does dancing for entertaining or for fun, will there still be vibrations.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：你看到母亲，我觉得她觉得她已经过去了，她听说跳舞应该只为神圣而跳舞。她想知道她是否为了娱乐或娱乐而跳舞，还会有生命能量。

Shri Mataji: You know that Divine is the greatest fun? Should be for entertainment, you want to make them miserable or what? It’s only for fun, complete fun and enjoyment, it’s nothing.

锡吕玛塔吉：你知道Divine是最大的乐趣吗？应该是娱乐，你想让他们悲惨或什么？它只是为了娱乐，完全有趣和享受，它没什么。

I can’t keep serious for more than one minute.

我不能坚持超过一分钟。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

I too I have to keep up a show. When I want to shout or get angry deliberately, but I have to tell myself: ※Now, behave yourself, you have to serious, you have to be serious.§

我也要继续演出。当我想故意大喊或生气时，我必须告诉自己：※现在，表现自己，你必须认真，你必须认真。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

I mean, I laugh and smile so much my both cheeks have got dimples like this.

我的意思是，我笑得很开心，我的两个脸颊都有这样的酒窝。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

There was one poet, you see, the one who has written this ※sabo ko dua dena§. So, his Guru sent him to Me that he should come and compose some praises of Me, you see, he’s a sensible man. So he came to Me when I was in direct in Baslam [unsure] program. And suddenly I started, you see, on something you were talking I started laughing. And he was sitting in the dining room. So he asked: ※Who laughed like that?§ I said: ※It’s Me. Yes, why?§ He said: ※My Guru doesn’t even smile!§ I said: ※You go and poke him.§

你知道，有一位诗人写过这个人，他写了这个“sabo ko duadena”。所以，他的导师把他送到了我，他应该来为我做一些赞美，你知道，他是一个懂事的人。所以当我直接参加巴斯拉姆[不确定]计划时，他来找我。突然间，我开始，你看，在你说话的时候，我开始大笑。他正坐在餐厅里。所以他问道：※谁笑得那样？§我说：※它是我。是的，为什么？§他说：※我的导师甚至不笑！§我说：※你去捅他。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

※He doesn’t smile§, he said. How can that be a good Guru? I said: ※You’d better go and poke him.§ He doesn’t have to be so serious.

他说，他不会微笑。怎么能成为一个好大师呢？我说：※你最好去捅他。§他不必太认真。

Sahaja Yogi: What is poking?

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：什么是戳？

Shri Mataji: Did you follow?

锡吕玛塔吉：你有没有关注？

Sahaja Yogi: Yes.

只有瑜珈：是的。

Shri Mataji [to Mary]: For the French, you have to tell.

Shri Mataji [对玛丽]：对于法国人，你必须告诉她。

Shri Mataji: What’s up?

锡吕玛塔吉：什么*？

Sahaja Yogi: We would like to sing you a song.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：我们想给你唱一首歌。

Shri Mataji: I had enough.

锡吕玛塔吉：我受够了。

[To a Yogini] This is Chinese, this tea? Chinese tea? Chinese I don’t mind. Indian, not Indian tea. In the night, take Chinese tea [green tea], in the morning, take Indian tea [black tea]. And in the day time, take coffee.

[给一个Yogini]这是中国人，这茶？中国茶？中国人，我不介意。印度，而不是印度茶。在晚上，采取中国茶[绿茶]，在早上，采取印度茶[红茶]。在白天，喝咖啡。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

Not French! French should not [Bapre, so cheat? Unsure] It’s too much because you have too much heat in the body. If you take coffe you’ll be adding fire into the fire, it will be too much.

不是法国人！法国人不应该[Bapre，所以作弊？不确定]它太多了，因为你体内有太多的热量。如果你服用咖啡，你会在火中添加火，这将太多了。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

Coffee is very bad for liver, coffee, is very bad.

咖啡对肝脏，咖啡非常不好，非常糟糕。

For liver, it’s very bad.

对肝脏来说，它非常糟糕。

Gulkand [Persian word; ※gul§, flower; ※kand§, sweet], you don’t get here, I think Gulkand. But I saw it in London. You should sell them Gulkand.

古尔坎[波斯语; ※gul§，花; ※kand§，甜蜜]，你不会来到这里，我想Gulkand。但我在伦敦看到了它。你应该把它们卖给Gulkand。

Marie: What is it?

玛丽：这是什么？

Shri Mataji: You should sell it, something, Gulkand made out of the-

锡吕玛塔吉：你应该卖掉它，Gulkand用它做的东西 - 

Sahaja Yogi: Rose petals

只有瑜珈：玫瑰花瓣

Shri Mataji: It is Indian rose petals.

锡吕玛塔吉：这是印度玫瑰花瓣。

Sahaja Yogi: From India, we have lots of Kokum.?

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：来自印度，我们有很多Kokum。

Sahaja Yogi: They bought Kokum.?

只有Yogi：他们买了Kokum。

Shri Mataji: Kokum, no. This is from- You can get it in London Kokum, but it’s Gulkand.

锡吕玛塔吉：Kokum，没有。这是来自 - 你可以在伦敦Kokum得到它，但它是Gulkand。

Sahaja Yogi: It’s better for us.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：对我们来说更好。

Shri Mataji: Very good.

锡吕玛塔吉：非常好。

Sahaja Yogi: What is the name?

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：这叫什么名字？

Sahaja Yogi: Gulkand.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：Gulkand。

Shri Mataji: We’ll send you. Patty you get it, I’ve seen one shop has got it. You get it from there.

锡吕玛塔吉：我们会送你的。帕蒂，你明白了，我看到有一家商店得到了它。你从那里得到它。

Sahaja Yogi: In London. Because I’ve tried in Birmingham I could not get.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：在伦敦。因为我在伯明翰试过，我无法得到。

Shri Mataji: No, no,no,no, you can. I’ve seen it.

锡吕玛塔吉：不，不，不，不，你可以。我已经看到了它。

Somehow, I think it has come now. Somebody must have to give you money. Gulkand is very good for liver. It’s excellent. But I don’t know, some people don’t like the taste of it, but doesn’t matter. You could take it as a medicine: you could take half a spoon every morning and half a spoon in the afternoon, it’s all right.

不知何故，我认为它现在已经到来。有人必须给你钱。 Gulkand非常适合肝脏。它很棒。但我不知道，有些人不喜欢它的味道，但没关系。你可以把它作为一种药：你可以每天早上半汤匙，下午半汤匙，它可以。

Very good.

很好。

Sahaja Yogi: Any advise for the night?

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：对夜晚有什么建议吗？

Shri Mataji: Night, no. Because it’s very cold here.

锡吕玛塔吉：晚上，没有。因为这里很冷。

[Inaudible]

[无声]

Shri Mataji: Now, how many almonds you give? Two are needed, one for Mahakali and one for Mahasarasvati.

锡吕玛塔吉：现在，你给了多少杏仁？需要两个，一个用于Mahakali，一个用于Mahasarasvati。

I like almonds.

我喜欢杏仁。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

Shri Mataji: Any other? All questions have awake?

锡吕玛塔吉：还有其他吗？所有问题都清醒了吗？

Sahaja Yogi:The last one, promised.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：承诺的最后一个。

Sahaja Yogi: Final question.

只有Yogi：最后的问题。

Shri Mataji: Final?

锡吕玛塔吉：决赛？

Sahaja Yogi: She wants to know how to get detached from her emotions and how to establish purity in ourselves.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：她想知道如何摆脱她的情绪以及如何在自己身上建立纯洁。

Shri Mataji: Emotions. We should not confuse, you see. Emotions are pure, nothing wrong with emotions. But the purity, that question comes in. When the emotions are not spontaneous, are biased, like, because he’s your son you have emotional feelings, because he’s your brother you have emotional feelings, because- Because! Then that’s not pure emotions. So, divine emotions are not attached like the sap of the tree, I always say. The sap of the tree rises, it goes into the whole tree, he doesn’t settle down into one flower or one leaf. If it does that then the whole tree will die and the flower will die. All right? So the emotions that are divine are always absolutely pure. So emotions themselves detach you. If it’s true love you are absolutely detached. Because true love means you love everyone equally, may not be similar, but equally.

锡吕玛塔吉：情绪。你知道，我们不应该混淆。情绪是纯粹的，情绪没有错。但纯度，那个问题就出现了。当情绪不自发时，就会有偏见，比如，因为他是你的儿子你有情感感受，因为他是你的兄弟，你有情感感受，因为 - 因为！然后那不是纯粹的情感。因此，我总是说，神圣的情感并不像树的树液那样。树的树液上升，它进入整棵树，他不会沉淀成一朵花或一片叶子。如果它这样做那么整棵树都会死，花会死。好吗？因此，神圣的情感总是绝对纯净的。所以情绪本身会让你失望。如果它是真正的爱你绝对是超然的。因为真爱意味着你平等地爱每一个人，可能不会相似，但同样如此。

Like the tree has different way- things, like it has got leaves, it has got roots, it has got flowers, it has got fruits. So whatever is needed for whatever part is given with the equal attention. That’s how the true love should be, that’s how the rue emotions should be. So, how to detach is best is to try to do equally to everyone. Like now, somebody is your husband, the relationship is different but give equal attention to your husband as much as to your own child. Equal attention to other Sahaja Yogis as much as to your own Mother. This is how you’ll touch it. But, you see, somebody, say, romanticism now, it’s ego, nonsense, ego it is. Romanticism is nothing but simple ego. It has nothing to do with emotions I tell you. It is ego because you start thinking you are the, what is, you are the Juliet. All right, I ＆m now the Juliet. So somebody has become the Romeo. [Inaudible] Now you are a Juliet so he must be like Romeo? If he doesn’t like, behave like Romeo then you feel hurt. So your romanticism is finished then you start crying: ※Why doesn’t he behave like Romeo?§ Neither you are Juliet nor he is Romeo. Both are imaginations of your ego. And then your ego feels hurt, then you feel very unhappy about it. So, some women, if the husband doesn’t- you see, they will go on: ※Stand up, sit down. Stand up, sit down!§ The husband gets, you see, confused. When she says: ※Stand up!§ he sits down. So she gets angry: ※What do you mean? You have no sense, you are not fair to me.§ Same thing could happen to the man, same could happen with the husband.

就像树有不同的方式，就像它有叶子，它有根，它有花，它有结果。因此无论在同等关注下给予什么部分都需要什么。那就是真正的爱应该如何，那就是喧嚣的情感应该如何。所以，如何分离最好是尽量平等地对待每个人。就像现在一样，有人是你的丈夫，关系是不同的，但同样关心你的丈夫和你自己的孩子。同样关注其他霎哈嘉瑜伽士和你自己的母亲。这就是你碰触它的方式。但是，你看，有人说，现在浪漫主义，它是自我，废话，自我。浪漫主义只不过是简单的自我。这与我告诉你的情绪无关。这是自我，因为你开始认为你是什么，你是朱丽叶。好吧，我现在是朱丽叶。所以有人成了罗密欧。 [听不清]现在你是朱丽叶，所以他必须像罗密欧一样？如果他不喜欢，表现得像罗密欧那么你会感到受伤。所以你的浪漫主义已经结束然后你开始哭泣：※为什么他的行为不像罗密欧？§你既不是朱丽叶也不是罗密欧。两者都是你自我的想象力。然后你的自我感到受伤，然后你会对此感到非常不满。所以，有些女性，如果丈夫没有 - 你看，他们会继续：※站起来，坐下来。站起来，坐下！§丈夫得到，你看，困惑。当她说：※站起来！§他坐下。所以她生气了：※你是什么意思？你没有意义，你对我不公平。§同样的事情可能发生在男人身上，同样可能发生在丈夫身上。

So the equal attention to every relationship in its full nurturing of that relationship is complete emotions, the true divine emotions, that’s what I have for all of you. Everyone is in my mind and everyone I nurture with full attention.

因此，在完全培养这种关系时对每一种关系的平等关注是完整的情感，真实的神圣情感，这就是我对你们所拥有的一切。每个人都在我的脑海里，我培养的每个人都充分关注。

All right?

好吗？

And also you must know one thing very clearly which I know that the source of joy is your Self, nobody else can give you joy. It’s only your Self! That your wife should give you the joy, your husband should give you the joy, your children should give you the joy, is wrong expectation. They can never! Because source is here [Shri Mataji shows her heart], you see? If the lamp is supposed to give us the light, we don’t expect light from the leaves. But that’s what it is. It is a misconception. Joy can never come from others it comes from within yourself and the Self which is God. So only from God and from your Self you can have joy, not from anybody else. When they are Realized souls, then also you feel their joy because you can get it from their Self. Only from the Self you can get the joy and not from intellect.

而且你必须清楚地知道一件事，我知道快乐的源泉是你的自我，没有其他人可以给你带来快乐。它只是你的自我！你的妻子应该给你带来快乐，你的丈夫应该给你带来快乐，你的孩子应该给你带来快乐，是错误的期望。他们永远不会！因为来源在这里[Shri Mataji显示她的心]，你看到了吗？如果灯应该给我们发光，我们不要期待叶子的光。但那就是它的本质。这是一种误解。快乐永远不会来自于你自己和来自上帝的自我。因此，只有来自上帝和你的自我才能获得快乐，而不是来自任何其他人。当他们成为自觉的灵时，你也会感受到他们的快乐，因为你可以从他们的自我中获得它。只有来自自我，你才能获得快乐，而不是智力。

It’s a conditioning of the mind. I mean, you see, here everything is so judgement I see the people and I talk to men and woman, you see, and I am really amazed how artificial they have become about even emotional behaviour towards each other. Very artificial, just like, you see, French will put the fork like this, English will put like this. Now, in a French company, if you put it like this, they’ll laugh at you. If it is an English company, if you put it like this, they’ll laugh at you. These norms they themselves have made, bound themselves with these norms, in the same way, romanticism is. All of these norms have been made by human beings and they are bound by it and they make themselves miserable.

它是心灵的制约。我的意思是，你知道，在这里，一切都是如此的判断，我看到了人们，我和男人和女人交谈，你看，我真的很惊讶他们对彼此的情感行为变得多么人为。非常人为，就像，你看，法国人会像这样把叉子放进去，英语会像这样。现在，在一家法国公司，如果你这样说，他们会嘲笑你。如果它是一家英国公司，如果你这样说，他们会嘲笑你。他们自己制定的这些规范，与这些规范联系在一起，就像浪漫主义一样。所有这些规范都是由人类制定的，它们受到它的约束，它们使自己变得悲惨。

You are free people you are not bound by any norms.

你是自由的人，你不受任何规范的约束。

Shri Mataji [To Marie]: Done?

Shri Mataji [To Marie]：完成了吗？

This is what it is you see, but, again as I warn you for discretion, you must know what are the artificial ※hamsa§ and which are normal things which are supposed to be done. It doesn’t mean that you become abandon, a free person doesn’t mean abandon, never.

这就是你所看到的，但是，当我警告你斟酌决定时，你必须知道什么是人工的“hamsa”，哪些是应该做的正常事情。它并不意味着你变得放弃，一个自由的人并不意味着放弃，永远不会。

[Marie gives a very long translation]

[玛丽给出了很长的翻译]

Shri Mataji: I must say 21 stages, [unsure] when you say so much [inaudible]

锡吕玛塔吉：当你说了这么多[听不清]时，我必须说21个阶段，[不确定]

[Big laughter]

[大笑]

Sahaja Yogi: Mother there is a very logical explanation for it.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：母亲有一个非常合乎逻辑的解释。

Shri Mataji: What?

锡吕玛塔吉：什么？

Sahaja Yogi: There is a very logical explanation.

霎哈嘉瑜伽士：有一个非常合乎逻辑的解释。

Another Sahaja Yogi: She forgot something at the beginning.

另一个霎哈嘉瑜伽士：她一开始就忘记了什么。

Shri Mataji: Of course.

锡吕玛塔吉：当然。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

Shri Mataji: Sometimes she finishes so soon, second one was just a sentence and she [inaudible]

锡吕玛塔吉：有时她很快就完成了，第二个只是一个句子而她[听不清]

[Big laughter]

[大笑]

Shri Mataji: So discretion, again. What to discard, what not to discard. The traditions are, so many traditions are very good, they are symbolic and the symbolism of that tradition must be understood. And if you understand the symbolism then you’d better do it.

锡吕玛塔吉：再次如此谨慎。什么丢弃，什么不丢弃。传统是 - 许多传统都非常好，它们是象征性的，必须理解这种传统的象征意义。如果你了解象征意义，那么你最好这样做。

For example, I’ll give you my own example: I was born in a Christian family. So, normally, you are supposed to pierce the nose, but Christians don’t do it. Though my father, my mother, both of them knew that I was so and so, they said: ※We must pierce the nose§. But all the family people, you see, all the relations said: ※No, because we are Christians we cannot pierce the nose.§ And they did not pierce it. But it’s very symbolic and I have to wear, I have to pierce it. So maybe, I should next year, because if I don’t do it, I’ll have troubles with my nose. I know that. There’s a power there ※siddhi§, for which I have to wear a nose ring or a nose decoration.

例如，我会给你一个自己的例子：我出生在一个基督徒家庭。所以，通常情况下，你应该刺穿鼻子，但基督徒不要这样做。虽然我的父亲，我的母亲，他们两个都知道我是谁，所以他们说：※我们必须刺穿鼻子。但是所有的家庭成员，你看，所有的关系都说：※不，因为我们是基督徒，我们无法刺穿鼻子。§他们并没有刺穿它。但它非常具有象征性，我必须穿，我必须刺穿它。也许，明年我应该，因为如果我不这样做，我的鼻子会有麻烦。我知道。那里有一个电源※siddhi§，我必须戴上鼻环或鼻子装饰。

So, so many traditions which are symbolic must be understood in their own spirituality. Like English people have one tradition, they used to have, not now, that whenever they went to visit somebody, they used to take some charcoal with them. Because in those [times] people used to heat their houses with coal. And if supposing you sit with them and there is a use of the coal, it’s better to leave some coal so they heat it there, expressing the warmth.

因此，许多具有象征意义的传统必须在他们自己的灵性中被理解。就像英国人有一个传统，他们过去曾经有过，而不是现在，每当他们去拜访某人时，他们过去常常带着一些木炭。因为在那些[时代]人们习惯用煤加热房屋。如果假设你和他们坐在那里并且使用煤炭，那么最好留下一些煤炭，以便在那里加热，表达温暖。

But now, if you find an English man will never take anything to [inaudible] that state and don’t do it. You give them any amount of presents they never return your presents. It’s so common. If you give them ten diners they might invite you to one diner. It’s a common experience of all the Englands, all over the world, it is so. Compared to Indians, they are very, very miserly, all of them, despite the fact they are much richer people. The first time the Sahaja Yogis went to India, absolutely free, didn’t pay anything, for years they didn’t pay anything. And when they came back, they never even wrote a letter of thanks to anyone. Absolutely free they lived there.

但是现在，如果你发现一个英国男人永远不会采取任何东西来[听不清]那个州并且不会这样做。你给他们任意数量的礼物，他们永远不会归还你的礼物。它很常见。如果你给他们十个食客，他们可能会邀请你去一个餐馆。它是所有英格兰的共同经历，在世界各地，它是如此。与印第安人相比，尽管他们是更富裕的人，但他们都是非常非常吝啬的。霎哈嘉瑜伽第一次去印度，完全免费，没有付出任何代价，多年来他们没有付出任何代价。当他们回来时，他们甚至都没有给任何人写过致谢信。他们绝对自由地住在那里。

And in India, people got worried they thought that all these people had got sick you know. And they were sending telegrams: ※I hope they are there all right.§ I said: ※They are perfectly all right what is the matter?§ And then they phone called to Me and asked Me on the telephone: ※What’s the matter with all the people they are- are they all right?§ And I asked them: ※What’s the matter? They have not sent any letter?§ They said: ※Nothing! We have a low community [unsure].§ I mean, these people have even borrowed money and everything and I asked them: ※Why didn’t you write§. They said: ※I know, I know.§ They said: ※We know, we know. We should have done but we did not§ Finished. I mean imagine! Such things, I’ve seen myself! They never returned the money, of course, no question of returning the money, but at least send a letter of thanks.

在印度，人们担心他们认为所有这些人都生病了。他们正在发送电报：※我希望他们在那里可以。我说：※他们完全没问题是什么？§然后他们打电话给我，并在电话上问我：※什么是*与他们所有的人有关系 - 他们还好吗？§我问他们：※问题是什么？他们没有发过任何信？§他们说：※没什么！我们的社区很少[不确定]。我的意思是，这些人甚至借了钱和一切，我问他们：※你为什么不写？他们说：※我知道，我知道。他们说：※我们知道，我们知道。我们应该做但我们没有完成。我的意思是想象！这样的事情，我见过自己！当然，他们从来没有退还这笔钱，也没有退钱的问题，但至少要发一封感谢信。

And the whole thing is that we have abandoned all the good traditions in every way. Sometimes it shocks Me because I’ve known people in my childhood who were foreigners, people of great values and sense of gratitude and everything and when I find now the people around Me, yes, they have no sense of gratitude. But now, the Sahaja Yogis are going to re-establish those traditions we have forgotten which are very important. These are normal things we have to do. Even the dogs and animals have gratitude. If we don’t have gratitude, we are worse than animals, isn’t it?

整个问题是我们在各方面都抛弃了所有优良传统。有时它让我感到震惊，因为我知道我童年时代的人是外国人，有伟大价值观的人和感恩之心以及一切，当我现在找到我周围的人时，是的，他们没有感激之情。但现在，霎哈嘉瑜伽士将重新建立我们已经忘记的那些非常重要的传统。这些是我们必须做的正常事情。即使是狗和动物也要感恩。如果我们没有感激，我们比动物更糟糕，不是吗？

So, we have to re-establish those traditions and those great things which are so important to be good human beings, to be virtuous, righteous human beings. So the traditions which have symbolic values must be re-establish in all the community and society and there should be reports about it between different communities and societies so that people learn good traditions.

因此，我们必须重新建立那些传统和那些对人类是如此重要的伟大事物，才能成为善良，正直的人类。因此，必须在所有社区和社会中重新建立具有象征价值的传统，并且应该在不同的社区和社会之间有关于它的报告，以便人们学习良好的传统。

For example, we should not assert on other people but we should learn from them. And that’s very important. Like an aeroplane, you see, is first fixed on the ground and then it ascends. Supposing all the screws are loose and the aeroplane rises, [Shri Mataji laughs] what will happen to the aeroplane? So all these screws must be tightened first.

例如，我们不应该对其他人断言，但我们应该向他们学习。这非常重要。你会看到，就像飞机一样，它首先固定在地面上然后上升。假设所有螺钉都松动并且飞机升起，[Shri Mataji笑]飞机会发生什么？因此必须首先拧紧所有这些螺钉。

So again the discretion is between abandonment and between tradition.

因此，自由裁量权是在放弃和传统之间。

Also, traditions can get ruined, spoiled by time. So, you should bring it back to its natural position. Like in India, it was a custom, in every country it was a custom that because the boys inherit the father’s property, the girls were given part of the property as- because, after all, the girl is going to another family and she has equal right on the property. It was called as dowry.

而且，传统可能会被破坏，被时间所破坏。所以，你应该把它带回自然的位置。就像在印度一样，这是一种习俗，在每个国家都是习俗，因为男孩们继承了父亲的财产，女孩们被赋予了财产的一部分 - 因为，毕竟，这个女孩要去另一个家庭，她对房产拥有平等的权利。它被称为嫁妆。

And for example a king’s daughter won’t be sent without an elephant to anybody’s else family, isn’t it? Because she must keep some elephant with them. But now the traditions have become worse because it has rotten, you see, you can say, it has matured, as you call the cheese. [Shri Mataji laughs] Fungus has grown up.

例如，一个国王的女儿不会在没有大象的情况下被送到任何人的家庭，不是吗？因为她必须养一些大象。但是现在传统已经变得更糟了，因为它已经腐烂了，你可以说，它已经成熟，就像你称之为奶酪一样。 [Shri Mataji笑]真菌已经长大了。

So, as a result of that, now people started demanding that: ※You must give so much.§ In India now, the rule is that the girl gets half of the property of the father. He has to give equal to the half property. She can always claim it with the law. But despite that, now they demand the dowry.

所以，由于这个原因，现在人们开始要求：※你必须付出这么多。现在在印度，规则是这个女孩得到了父亲的一半财产。他必须给予同等的半财产。她总是可以依法申请。但尽管如此，现在他们要求嫁妆。

So a good tradition has become rotten. So we have to purify, go to the symbolic principle of that and then imbibe that tradition.

所以一个好的传统变得腐烂。所以我们必须净化，去那个象征性的原理，然后吸收那个传统。

Now, I’ll end up now all other things by one small ※shloka§ which you will understand by very simple things. They say: ※Bakaha svetaha. Hamsah shvetah, bakah shvetah. kah bhedah hamsa bakayo.§ The swan is white. The swan is a divine swan, is hamsa. The divine swan is white and the crane is also white. The crane, ※bakah§ is the crane, all white. What is the difference between the two? How can you make out the difference between the two? Because they both are white. So, what do they say: ※Nira kshira viveketu.§ When it is a question of discriminating between the water and the milk, then you can make out which is the swan and which is the crane. Because the swan will just drink the milk and leave the water.

现在，我将通过一个小的“shloka”结束所有其他事情，你会通过非常简单的事情来理解。他们说：※Bakaha svetaha。 Hamsah shvetah，bakah shvetah。 kah bhedahhamsabakayo.§天鹅是白色的。天鹅是神圣的天鹅，是hamsa。神圣的天鹅是白色的，起重机也是白色的。起重机，※bakah§是起重机，全白色。两者有什么区别？你怎么能弄清楚两者之间的区别？因为它们都是白色的。那么，他们怎么说：※Nira kshiraviveketu.§当这是一个区分水和牛奶的问题，那么你可以弄清楚哪只是天鹅，哪只是起重机。因为天鹅只会喝牛奶而离开水。

The subtle part of it is that: ※Kakah krishna pikah krishna, Ko bheda pika kaka yoho?§ [Crow is black, Cuckoo is black, which difference? In Subhashitani, proverbs.]

它的微妙之处在于：※Kakah krishna pikah krishna，Ko bheda pika kaka yoho？§[乌鸦是黑色的，杜鹃是黑色的，哪个不同？在Subhashitani，谚语。]

See, the crow is black and the cuckoo bird is also black, what is the difference between the two? They say: ※Vasanta samaye praptey, Kakah kakah pikah pikaha!§ When the springtime comes in, ※vasanta samaye※, then you know that crow remains the crow and the cuckoo bird remains cuckoo bird. Because cuckoo bird starts singing when this discretion teaches you when to love when to sing when to say things, because, if you are the cuckoo bird. But if you are the crow, all the time you will be doing: ※Croa, croa, croa§ [Laughter]

看，乌鸦是黑色的，杜鹃鸟也是黑色的，两者有什么区别？他们说：※Vasanta samaye praptey，Kakah kakah pikah pikaha！§当春天进来时，※vasanta samaye※，那么你知道乌鸦仍然是乌鸦，杜鹃鸟仍然是杜鹃鸟。因为杜鹃鸟开始唱歌时，这种自由裁量权会教你何时爱唱什么时候说话，因为，如果你是杜鹃鸟。但如果你是乌鸦，你会一直在做的事情：※Croa，croa，croa§[笑声]

You have no sense of proportions.

你没有比例感。

[Cut in the audio]

[切入音频]

See, I was in Rahuri and they had two programs. One was, they were celebrating Vivekanand in that program and afterwards was my program. So they wanted Me to garland the photo of Vivekanand because they said: ※Mother he was a great son of India.§ I didn’t want to do it but I said: ※All right I’ll garland it.§ The lights fell all off all the time. [Inaudible] Nobody saw whether I garlanded the photograph or I put it on the ground. But a soon as Sahaja Yoga started- [Big laughter] So ※Vasanta samaye praptey tu§ When it is the springtime, you make out who are the seekers and who are not the seekers. And some crow also joins in but you can find him out.

看，我在Rahuri，他们有两个程序。一个是，他们在那个节目中庆祝Vivekanand，之后是我的节目。所以他们希望我给Vivekanand拍照片，因为他们说：※母亲他是印度的一个伟大的儿子。我不想这样做但是我说：※好吧我会把它装扮成花灯。一直都是这样。 [听不清]没有人看到我是照片还是将它放在地上。但是霎哈嘉瑜伽开始的时候 -  [大笑]所以※Vasanta samaye prapteytu§当它是春天时，你会弄清楚谁是寻求者，谁不是寻求者。还有一些乌鸦加入，但你可以找到他。

So, all right.

好吧，好吧。

So may God bless you.

愿上帝保佑你。

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

锡吕.玛塔吉.涅玛拉.德维